Louis Proyect: The Unrepentant Marxist

September 20, 2015

Did the West ignore a Russian offer for Assad to step down as President?

Filed under: Uncategorized — louisproyect @ 1:56 pm


by Brian Slocock

ChurkinA story published in the Guardian on 16 September entitled “West ‘ignored Russian offer for Assad to step down as President’” has evoked considerable excitement on both sides of the Atlantic. The story is based on a claim by former Finnish President and UN Diplomat Martti Ahtisaari that the West failed to respond to an overture made in February 2012 by Russia’s UN Ambassador Vitaly Churkin. According to Ahtisaari, Churkin, in a private conversation suggested a means for resolving the Syrian crisis:

He said: ‘Martti, sit down and I’ll tell you what we should do.’ “He said three things: One – we should not give arms to the opposition. Two – we should get a dialogue going between the opposition and Assad straight away. Three – we should find an elegant way for Assad to step aside.”

The Guardian seems to have felt the need to “sex…

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  1. Have you ever weeded a garden. I have never done that. It looks like the same tedious task over and over and over again. But if it does not get done the harvest is damaged. So instead of weeding a garden I sit here and ask the same question over and over again and wait for an answer that never comes. This time I am going to be a bit smarter and not ask the question.
    In fact in high political style I am going to change the subject. In the second world war many different sides were kiliing each other. All of these sides were evil, with one possible exception, yet each side tried to paint the others side as being so evil that if they won civilazation would be imperiled. Of course the Nazis where a threat to ciivilization. But about the others? Well we in the west are often told that Stalin was worse than Hitler. That is a flat out lie. None the less being better than Hitler hardly can let one off the hook against the accusation against being a a threat to civilization. Then there were the militarist Japanese. Any doubt about their lack of committment to humane principles? Then the Japanese opponents in China were certianly no Angles when it came to exessively brutal behavior. Finally we have the western Anglo Allies? They just needed to be given a chance to show that they could be as big a threat to humanity as the Nazis. No the details might be a bit diiferent but the outcome will be the same. Unless something stops them.
    The only possible exception might have been the largely communist European underground resistance. But we can not even be sure of that as the Euro commies where not yet a major force in Europe. The commies in Europe at that time were mostly lead by Stalinist type commies. Not that being authoritarian in and of itself is a bad thing. So what should a young lad of 18 in the Republic Of Ireland have done in say 1943 or 1944? What about the Irish government?
    I wonder if Mr. Proyect or mui would have complained about an Irish lad or an Irish government that would not have rallied to the defence of Finland in that war? I wonder if they would have complained if such a lad or the Irish government had not raced to defend the Spanish Republic from Franco? The Irish Prime Minister could have said that neither the Nazis or Soviets should be sending arms to Spain but neither side would have cared a shit about what the Irish Prime Minister said.
    In the same fashion I could say that just as the USA should not get involved in the Syrian conflict neither should Iran or Russia. What I would say would have no effect what so ever, even if I were the President of the USA.
    Maybe the Russians and the Iranians think that they know something about this situation that I do not know, and they would be wrong if they did,
    or because they fear losing profits from the fall of Sadam Assads regime, these two regimes are willing to bid a lot of money to keep that Syrian Government in power. Is it likely that their raising the stakes in pot is just a bluff form which they would back down on if fheir bets were met and raised?
    Another factor in this case is Saudi Arabia which is in reality Israels 5th column in the middle east. If Saudi:s are supporting ISIS that means that the Israelis are supporting ISIS which means the USA is supporting ISIS despite its bombing of ISIS. Yes that sounds twisted because it is twisted.
    Why should anyone expect anything less? The leaderhip of the USA is a leadership after all the had Israel attack the USS Liberty to create a myth that Israel was an independent country.*
    * I am the source for this claim.

    Comment by Curt Kastens — September 20, 2015 @ 5:41 pm

  2. f Saudi:s are supporting ISIS that means that the Israelis are supporting ISIS which means the USA is supporting ISIS despite its bombing of ISIS.

    Instead if asking this question, maybe you could spend an hour or so researching whether Saudi Arabia is supporting ISIS. In fact it does not. It supports a faction in Syria that has been in an armed conflict with ISIS. It only took me 5 minutes to track down the necessary documentation:


    My problem with you and Mr. Provertier is not so much your politics but your laziness.

    Comment by louisproyect — September 20, 2015 @ 6:30 pm

  3. My source is much better than your source. So there.

    Comment by Curt Kastens — September 20, 2015 @ 7:46 pm

  4. Furthermore, I wonder if I am the only one wondering why you find this subject important. For me and I would hope for any self respecting leftist in the United States a key demand for change in the United States is a massive reduction in funds for the military industrial complex. If this key demand could ever be achieved the US would not even have the capability to aid the FSA or the Kurds for that matter even if its leaders wanted to. Furthermore while I am not a pacifist much of the white left in the USA is judging from what I have read in my life time.
    So while it is true that Assad is a vicious thug. And while it may be true that the leadership of the FSA are not stooges of the CIA and while it is almost certianly true that the low level soldiers fighting for the FSA,, all 350 of them, are certianly honest people trying to remove a tyrant and improve Syria in this particular case emphasing these facts are a distraction from what is a more imporant truth. The Republican Party distracts voters all of the time with emotiional contraversies that they care nothing about so that the voters do not have time to learn how they are being screwed by the Republicans on issues that the rich Republicans care deeply about. So here you are doing their job for them.
    In one year the right wing will be saying that Assad us still in power or that the ISIS is now in power because the Democrates did not do enough to stop it. No one important in the public’s eye will say, what would have been the costs and the consequences if we had done more. That is because the Democrats are a fake opposition. Sorry, I have not taken the time to track down the neccessary documentation that shows that the Democratic party is a fake oppostion. I am sure that if you wanted to you could find a source that says that anyone who would make such a claim is a conspiracy nut.

    Those who collect nuts are shell collectors. That may not be in the Bible. But, it is true.

    Comment by Curt Kastens — September 20, 2015 @ 8:56 pm

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