Louis Proyect: The Unrepentant Marxist

June 25, 2008

Turks and American Indians

Filed under: indigenous,Turkey — louisproyect @ 3:09 pm

A Uighur (Turkic) girl

An Inuit (Eskimo) girl

Two Melungeon boys

One of my favorite TV shows is The Turkish Hour, which runs on the local cable access channel in New York on Sunday night from 10 to 10:30pm (yes, I know it should be called The Turkish Half-Hour). You can watch segments from past shows at their website.

Last Sunday night, there were two eye-opening segments on admittedly remote connections between Turks and the peoples of North America. Even if they are impossible to establish with 100 percent accuracy, they certainly are intriguing.

In the first segment, we see a meeting at the Turkish Center in New York with American Indians performing music and dance, while scholars from both Turkey and North American Indian nations exchange ideas about the possibility that the two peoples are related ethnically!

That thought first entered my mind when I discovered that the word for boat in Turkish is “kayık”. (When the ‘i’ is not dotted in Turkish, it is pronounced almost like “uh”. With the dot, it is more like the ‘i’ in it.) A kayak, of course, is the boat favored by Inuits in Alaska and across northern Canada.

It is generally accepted that the Inuits and other indigenous peoples came across the Bering land bridge between Asia and North America up until about 5000 BC. It is also generally accepted that they originated from Eastern Siberia, the homeland of the Turkic and Mongol peoples.

Polat Kaya, a Turkish engineer and amateur scholar, wrote a paper titled “Search For a Probable Linguistic and Cultural Kinship Between the Turkish People of Asia and the Native Peoples of Americas”, a version of which can be read here. Kaya’s ideas are highly speculative, but other more mainstream scholars have made some of the same points. For example, Rene Bonnerjea’s “A Comparison between Eskimo-Aleut and Uralo-Altaic Demonstrative Elements, Numerals, and Other Related Semantic Problems” that appeared in the Jan. 1978, International Journal of American Linguistics.

Throwing caution to the wind, I will accept Kaya’s amateurish speculations on their own terms, if for no other reason it opens up huge avenues of literary and philosophical investigations about mankind’s common ancestry.

Kaya includes a table demonstrating the similarities between the Turkish words for father (ata, as in Ataturk, or “father of the Turks”, the name adopted by Mustafa Kemal; in more intimate settings, the word baba is used) and mother (anne) and various American Indian peoples. The Eskimo word for father is atataq and mother is ananaq.

Going even further out on a limb, The Turkish Hour had a segment on possible ties between Turks and the Melungeon people of Appalachia, a group that I had never heard of before. The term Melungeon seems to be derived from ‘mélange’, or mixture, a reference to the mixed ethnicity of this group. A wiki article on the Melungeons states:

A common belief about the Melungeons of east Tennessee is that they are an indigenous people of Appalachia, existing there before the arrival of the first white settlers. But genealogists working in the late 20th century have documented, through a range of tax, court, census and other colonial, late 18th and early 19th century records, that the ancestors of the Melungeons migrated into the region from Virginia and Kentucky as did their English, Scots-Irish, Irish, Welsh, and German neighbors.

The likely background to the mixed-race families later to be called “Melungeons” was the emergence in the Chesapeake Bay region in the 17th century of what historian Ira Berlin calls “Atlantic Creoles.” These were freed slaves and indentured servants of European, West African, and Native American ancestry (and not just North American, but also Caribbean, Central and South American Indian: see Forbes (1993)). Some of these “Atlantic Creoles” were culturally what today might be called “Hispanic” or “Latino”, bearing names such as “Chavez,” “Rodriguez,” and “Francisco.” Many of them intermarried with their English neighbors, adopted English surnames, and even owned slaves. Early Colonial America was very much a “melting pot” of peoples, but not all of these early multiracial families were necessarily ancestral to the later Melungeons.

“The historical and anthropological evidence … suggests that in general a significant portion (though not necessarily all) of the ancestry of the Magoffin County, Kentucky, and Highland County, Ohio, enclaves originated principally from an admixture of African Americans and Whites in the early colonial period (from the late 1600s until about 1800) and secondarily from an admixture with presently unknown Native American groups in the mid-Atlantic coast region.”

The article also dismisses the claim of any kind of Turkish connection:

More recent suggestions by amateur researchers as to the Melungeons’ ethnic identity include Gypsy, Turkish, and Jewish. There is no evidence that Melungeons themselves ever claimed any of those ancestries. Nor does any creditable historical evidence exist to support such theories. There is ample evidence from the research of David Beers Quinn and Ivor Noel Hume that all the Turks rescued by Drake in the sack of Cartagena were repatriated to their homeland.

The reference to Turks being rescued has to do Drake’s freeing of Ottoman Turks being held captive by the Spaniards in the Caribbean. They were originally enslaved by the Spanish in Europe and brought over to the New World where they worked as galley slaves. Apparently Francis Drake brought 500 of these men to Roanoke, Virginia where they were going to be ransomed back to the Ottoman Empire. Some Melungeons believe that the Turks were never returned and remained in Virginia where they became their ancestors.

The Melungeons, who are generally understood to be part American Indian, might have been descendants of a group of people who shared blood ties to the freed Turkish slaves, Roanoke colonists and native peoples. One amateur Melungeon historian writes:

About one hundred miles inland, from Roanoke Island, and adjacent to the South Carolina border, was an area called Robinson County, North Carolina. In 1719, a group of hunters and trappers strayed into the hilly landscape and stumbled upon a tribe of Indians. The Indians had light skin, gray/blue eyes and light brown hair. But most astonishing was the fact that they spoke nearly perfect Elizabethan English. These Indians said that their ancestors “talked from a book.” Their customs were similar to the early English Roanoke Colony. This sighting brought about a theory that the starving colonists at Roanoke took refuge with the Croatan Indians during the first winter when Governor John White didn’t return. To this day the descendants still live in Roberson County, North Carolina. They are known as the Lumbee Indians. The surviving remnants of the Roanoke settlement may have been assimilated into the indigenous tribes. The existence of fair skinned Indians in Roberson, North Carolina substantiates the theory that the Roanoke colonists and perhaps the abandoned Turks and Portuguese and Moors blended in with the Croatan and other Tidewater, Virginia Indian tribes, including the Powhatan and Lumbee Indians. Dr. Robert Gilmor, a Melungeon researcher, suggests the people of the legendary “Lost Colony of Roanoke” intermarried with the Powhatan Indians who had already intermarried with Jamestown Colony. Adding the surnames White and Dare to the Indian population.

Now some of you might remember that the Lumbees have a very proud tradition of fighting racism. In 1957, when Robert F. Williams was arming the NAACP in Roberson County against Klan terror, he found allies in the Lumbee Indians who had been the targets of racism themselves as Timothy Tyson recounts in “Radio Free Dixie: Robert F. Williams & the Roots of Black Power”:

The rout of Catfish Cole’s bedsheet brigade by the Monroe NAACP on October 5, 1957, crushed the evangelist’s aspiration to unite the Ku Klux Klan in the Carolinas under his charismatic leadership. His manly honor in tatters, Cole retreated from Union County to Robeson County in southeastern North Carolina to rebuild his following. “Both counties,” one observer noted, “were Catfish Cole’s territory.” In Robeson County, which had a history of strong support for the Klan, Cole hoped to rally his forces in a population divided almost evenly among African Americans, whites, and Lumbee Indians. “There’s about 30,000 half-breeds in Robeson County and we are going to have a cross burning and scare them up,” Cole announced. Asked whether he intended to use violence to stop the race-mixing in Robeson County, Cole replied that the guns his Klansmen carried “speak for themselves, and if they don’t, they will.” On January 13, 1958, the Klan burned a cross on the lawn of an Indian woman in the town of St. Pauls as “a warning” because, Cole claimed, she was “having an affair” with a white man. The cross burnings continued, with the former carnival barker ranting at each gathering about the terrible evils of “mongrelization,” the loose morals of Lumbee women, and the manly duties of white men “to fight [America’s] enemies anywhere, anytime.” As one visitor to Monroe later wrote to a friend, “Cole was in a particular mad dog fury” because of rumors that Ava Gardner, eastern North Carolina’s own homegrown movie star, was having a Hollywood affair with Sammy Davis Jr., whom Cole contemptuously referred to as “that one-eyed nigger.”

The climax of the Klan’s Robeson County campaign was to be a heavily armed rally on January 18, 1958, near the small town of Maxton, at which, Cole predicted, 5,000 Klansmen would remind Indians of “their place” in the racial order. “He said that, did he?” asked Simeon Oxendine, who had flown more than thirty missions against the Germans in World War II and now headed the Lumbee chapter of the Veterans of Foreign Wars. “Well, we?ll just wait and see.”

Cole’s references to Lumbee women were particularly galling. Robeson County sheriff Malcolm McLeod visited the grand wizard at his South Carolina home and “told him that his life would be in danger if he came to Maxton and made the same speech he?d been making.” That Friday night, as a few dozen Klansmen gathered in a roadside field in darkness lit only by a single hanging bulb powered by a portable generator, more than five hundred Lumbee men assembled across the road with rifles and shotguns. The Lumbees fanned out across the highway to encircle the Klansmen. When Cole began to speak, a Lumbee dashed up and smashed the light with his rifle barrel. Hundreds of Indians let out a thunderous whoop and fired their weapons repeatedly into the air. Only four people were injured, none seriously; all but one were apparently hit by falling bullets. The Klansmen dropped their guns and scrambled for their cars, abandoning the unlit cross, their public address system, and an array of KKK paraphernalia. Magnanimous in victory, the Lumbees allowed the white supremacists to escape. The war party even helped push Cole’s Cadillac out of the ditch where his wife, Carolyn, had driven in her panic. The grand wizard himself had abandoned “white womanhood” and fled on foot into the swamps. Laughing, the Lumbees set fire to the cross, hanged Catfish Cole in effigy, and had a rollicking victory bash. Draped in captured Klan regalia, they celebrated into the night. “If the Negroes had done something like this a long time ago, we wouldn’t be bothered with the KKK,” Oxendine said in a remark that kept his Lumbee troops clearly on a side of the color line different from that of African Americans.

Now, I have no idea whether the Turks are related to the Eskimos or the Melungeons, but I would suggest that this is a powerful theme for an epic novel. Start with a character crossing the Bering land bridge from Eastern Siberia in 7000 BC and his ancestors ending up fighting General Custer, or maybe an Ottoman slave’s ancestors confronting the Klan in 1957. Now that’s a novel that I would buy, one with a message—namely that we are all brothers and sisters under the skin.

112 Comments

  1. The link to Polat Kaya’s paper doesn’t work. Also, you might be interested in this short piece which discusses the kayak connection.

    Comment by Nathaniel — June 25, 2008 @ 4:01 pm

  2. There is a good deal of evidence for connections between the Yenesian languages of Siberia and the Na-Dene languages of North America (which includes Dene or Navajo).

    Whether we can attest macro-families of languages in Siberia and Central Asia is much more in dispute.

    Comment by Grumpy Old Man — June 25, 2008 @ 4:47 pm

  3. sorry,to me this is a strange theme for left folks.all people are related anyway.its a long tradition of the right and farright of turkey,especially of the “grey wolfs” to find “turkish” people everywhere in the world.so to deny,that the kurds are an opressed national minority they call them “mountainturks”.they create myths of a superior “turkish race” like the german myth of a superior “arian race” to argue for a “great turkey”.we should not follow that trail to establish historical connections between ethnic groups wich in fact have no relevance to their present situation but will only serve political aims.this really is a mayor problem between turkey and the bordering former soviet republics.turkish nationalism and german nationalism you can see today watching their soccergame at the europiean soccer champianship.

    Comment by tian li — June 25, 2008 @ 4:50 pm

  4. Tian Li is right partially since hunting for historical or existing subjects or objects supposed to believe in us is the essential instrument to establish nationalist sentiments, or “ressentiments” in Nietzschean terminology. You always need a figure that believes in you, a historical leader, a homeland that has been lost, the epic memories of a grand war, the painful experience of genocide, and the immortal lineage that underlines the illusion national collaboration, etc. etc. in order to believe yourself. For instance, I don’t believe in anything, even in myself because no one believes in me (!). Of course, it would be a case of rightist chauvinism if I wrote this post, but, since it is written by Louis, his message is clear and reversed form of nationalism: “we are all brothers and sisters under the skin”.

    Speaking of football (soccer), I meet an old friend of mine this weekend, and he asked me why I always support the opponents of Turkish national team. I told him that in the wake of a victory in football always something evil succeeds in politics. But, unfortunately, it seems that the side I support is doomed to lose.

    Comment by Mehmet Çagatay — June 25, 2008 @ 7:40 pm

  5. Some linguists have posited a connection between the Kartvelian languages (Georgian, Circassian, etc), Basque and the Dinéan tongues (Navajo, Apache, Athabascan):

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dene-Caucasian#Evidence_for_Den.C3.A9-Caucasian

    Comment by John B. — June 25, 2008 @ 10:28 pm

  6. Correction: That should have been “North Caucasian” languages, not including Georgian,

    Comment by John B. — June 25, 2008 @ 10:31 pm

  7. Louis: I’d respectfully suggest that you’d reconsider and mark your suggestion in large letters, JOKE. Irony doesn’t travel well on line and someone might take you literally. He’d spend a couple of years writing the epic that you’ve already neatly summed up as “…we are all brothers and sisters under the skin”. What would be gained by repeating that in a thousand pages? Think of some future book-reviewer whose summer would be spoiled by having to review it. It might also arouse some killjoy like George Carlin. He’d bring up Cain and Abel, remind us that most murders are committed within the family and that the most vicious wars are fought within a nation.

    Comment by Peter Byrne — June 26, 2008 @ 8:38 am

  8. Turko-Afghan settlers may have influenced language-formation in the Bengal delta. early Bengali that can be traced back to the 8th century was a non-gendered language— and in this sense, similar to Turkish. this existing similarity may have led to further amalgamation though the two are very distinct languages and cannot be compared unless one gets to two more about their respective grammatical structure.

    Looking at modern Turkish and Bangla one is struck by the fact that neither verb nor pronoun are gendered. And some crucial terms are common–like the common pronoun ‘o’, meaning a person..and the word for tree (gac) and even trees (gacera).

    i wonder if linguists have noticed this, as non-gendered languages are exceptional and in this particular case, a crucial non-genedered word is common to both.

    Comment by shy stalinist detective — July 1, 2008 @ 6:33 am

  9. I found this article of great interest and would concurr with many of its basic premises.The hwole study of Philogy is a area and subject that could do more to bring many people together through the linking of most modern to the handful of ancient languages and eventually to the source and mother language of the world. in the bilbe it states that we were one spoken tongue and because it was seen that man could work together(building the great tower of Babel)God dispersed us and made it only possible to speak in many tongues.We do all share acommon mother language and it is possible Ancient Turkish along with Sanskrit Early Latin and ancient greek is one of the base languages that spread with the dispersemnet of mankind over this earth.We all look to ancient Hebrew but that was a semite language based on Aramiac and its sister languages now Arabic etc.The linguistic links will bring the closer ethnic links into focus and that with the discoveries that this geberation face through the discoveries that DNA will bring. Shpuld help us all realise the beauty that all mankind shares in our heritage ethnically and linguistically. Bari chohan

    Comment by bari chohan — July 6, 2008 @ 10:06 pm

  10. The Turkish-Melungeon connection is total b.s. They are simply the descendants of black-white unions very early in the history of the colonies. Also, the Native American-Melungeon connection is almost nearly as dubious.

    The was just another case of a stigmatized people finding a way to not be considered black.

    Comment by sam77 — July 15, 2008 @ 5:03 am

  11. tian li :
    You know too much things,You know,greywolfs,“turkish race”,Kurds are ‘mountain Turks”,,very nice.

    Ok,In Arizona,there is Havasu lake City.Hava means air,sky,which is blue,
    Su, is water and there is a lake.
    If i say that the name of this city is Turkish,you will say that ,you are making ‘Turkish race’.
    If it is not Turkish tell me meaning of HAVA SU ,in English,or any other language.

    Comment by mumtaz urhan — September 18, 2009 @ 8:30 pm

  12. mumtaz urhan:

    your “panturanian” suggestion fails very easily. “hava” is not even an original turkish word. it is an arabic loanword with a semitic origin and ties in other semitic languages.
    however, the asians that once crossed the bering strait and finally settles in aritona did not yet have any contact with arabs and there are no such arabic words in siberian turkish languages like yakutian.

    also, even in the turkish languages that borrowed arabic words hava usually never translates to “blue”.
    it is only the gök (kük etc….) word that can equally signify the sky and the colour blue.

    the name of the havasu lake, by the way, means “blue green water” in the local native american language and since i am not a specialist in that language i am not sure which part of the name actually means “water” (read: even the “su” does not have to mean “water” here, it could be that “ha” means “water”, or “vasu” in the respective language).
    in any case, the name has nothing to do with turkish hava=air.

    niagara also has nothing to do with “ne yaygara”, by the way, it means “neck of land between the two lakes” in the local native american language.
    all those turko-fascist tries of co-opting native american words are a racist insult to the integrity and beauty of native american culture and the native americans don´t like them at all!

    imagine native americans explaining every cityname in anatolia according to the rules of their own languages … .
    turks also wouldn´t like that.

    but in general:
    yes, we are all brothers and sisters. and there is not a single people or cultural group on this earth that did not evolve out of a mix of other groups and whose culture incorporates elements from all over the world.
    this fact makes all fascist and racist ideologies especially meaningless.
    turkish culture (and people) today would not be itself without intermixing with greek, persian and arabic culture.
    greek culture (and people) today would not be itself without intermixing with turkish, albanian and slavic culture.
    german culture today would not be itself without originally palestinian christianity, influence from slavic neighbours and the joys of turkish fastfood.
    fortunately, there is no pure culture and there are no clearly distinguishable “races”.

    Comment by Leyla — October 9, 2009 @ 1:05 pm

  13. hava is a chuvashian origin word khava meaning air…note that.native americans are mostly found to be related to turks more thamn any other race.there are a lot of similarities which cannot be defined as coincidence.a,by the way,a lot of turks in history were assimilated by the chinese in china.note also that once chenghiz khan invaded china,he ordered his soldiers to rape the chinese women.the chinese oppressthe uyghurs.there is a genicide there.the kurds are not turks.but,there is a lot of mixture which bind the to turks.some look kile turks and tartars whereas others look like indo europeans like iranians and etc.kurds have no definite racial type.

    Comment by goyathlay — December 7, 2009 @ 2:03 pm

  14. it’s obvious that native americans and turks have similar physical properties, maybe even similar genetic properties.. i don’t claim or 100% believe that indians are turkic, but yes there is a probability.. it is a known fact that turks are nomadic people that travels a lot you know, so there are historical facts that turks have migrated to every corner of the continent through history.. it is also known that some eastern european nations have turkic blood in their veins as well (this is a scientific fact it’s not some “turko-fascist” make up).. in other words it is literally a fact that turks have a great effect on many nations one way or another, either genetic or cultural..

    i don’t claim the whole world nations came up from the turks, but there are some scientific and also reasonable facts that we all got to see.. it is not only turks who effected the other nations, french, english, spanish, italians etc. they all have “colonized” nations for over hundreds of years so assimilation is inevitable.. let me explain it in the most simple way.. if you combine black color with white color, you get grey.. if you add black to that grey, you get dark grey, and if you add white you get light grey.. whatever you do, no matter what amount you add to grey, you can not get pure white or pure black from the grey again..(please do not take this “black” and “white” as races, i meant only color as you know..)

    so as i said, one way or another non of us are purely white or purely black.. we all contain some cocktail in our bloods which makes us brothers and sisters.. either turkic blood or any other nations blood.. i am a turk for example, i’m from anatolia and i am blond with green eyes.. i am not a “sand nigger” or a “camel rider” as some people think :) i find it funny.. anyways, the point is no nation is pure today, the world is a global place and we are all connected to each other, not only by web, but also by blood.. sometimes only by the feeling of being a “turk” or what nation you belong to..

    no one knows who started the spread of mankind but we are all a part of it.. you may say we are from adam and eve, or from a fish that decided to walk on the ground, no matter what we all have two eyes, two arms, a brain and apart from other species we have reason.. so let’s use it and stop discrimination :) yes we are all different and yes we are all same..

    i also want to add something, maybe some people will get it wrong, like as if i’m a “turko-fascist” but the founder of my country, Mustafa Kemal Atatürk have a saying: “HOW GLAD THE ONE THAT SAYS I AM A TURK”.. please notice the difference between “how glad the one THAT SAYS and THAT IS a turk.. what i understand from this is that you don’t have to be a turk, you either born turk or not.. you can not become a member of a race or a nation after you born.. but feeling yourself as a member of a nation is what really important.. so don’t need to seek for our roots, where we came from or where we are going.. we are what we feel like.. if you can say that you are glad to be an american, an english, a spaniard, an indian, or a turk etc.. than you are belong to there..

    peace..

    Comment by Ali — February 10, 2010 @ 12:25 am

  15. there is dna evidence,there is linguistical evidence for the fact that most native americans are of turkic origins.look at the yakuts.they resemble the native americans of the north.look at the tuvins,they are like twin bothers of natives.there is also religious similarity between the turks and the natives.both samanism have identical aspects.meulgeon melun means cursed,can means soul…u can explain it in turkish.there is a region called yakot in canada.down to the south it changes to datoka,lakota etc…athapashkan languages are similar to turkic languages.that is proven.if there is a nation that may be akin to natives,that can be turks…all is proven.many native american languages have turkic words…tooz,kuush kuush,ak kapana,tepec,chakıra,tokin,kon,karwın,tawga,kapaktakon,kechua,belen,etc..320 more can be stated here.toz,kush,ak kapı,tepe,chakır,tekin,kün,karın,tayga or tau or dagh,ergenekon,kishi,belen,respectively mean all the same.that must be coincidence:)kazyun:kayın:brother in law…what a coincidence or what an interaction:)ulmek,a turkic tribe ans olmek,a nation in mezo america…another coincidence…:)in sumerian there are 3500 turkic words still that we use in turkish.sumerians were asians with brachysephalic skulls unlike the indo europeans,and their language is inflective and agglutinative like turkish.what a coincidence again:)
    tache people in canada.the word means to carry.in turkis it is tashı…coincidence again…yangi=yeni,kir=kir,kiz=kiz,ku=ko,koy…kuli=kül
    as=az,chur=dur,ku=kut,tano=tamu…cahpul tepec=chapulcu tepesi.many words sir…i could write more.accept the fact that the amateurs sometimes can be true.:)turks are a greater nation than europeans and others think.turk was the name of japeth,noah’s son according to islamic citings.so we are much older a nation than jews,english,and many others.:)goodbye.

    Comment by goyathlay — January 31, 2011 @ 1:23 am

  16. Goyathlay sure has a chip on his shoulder. Make a comprehensive list comparing every single word out of the all the Indian languages you just mixed haphazardly in a blender to every Turkish word and see what you get. Zip. Most of the northern Natives are already mixed and aren’t necessarily of the same Amerindian people that first came here (Amerindians were the first arrivals before the NaDene and the Inuit/Eskimo). To homogenize the great multitude of Indian beliefs and cultures as one “Shamanistic” religion is pretty sorry and just screams of trying too hard. Besides, Turkic didn’t exist 15,000+ years ago.

    Comment by Lurtz — March 8, 2011 @ 4:00 am

  17. lurts,how do u know that turks did not exist 15 000 years ago?u must have existed then so that u know?there is dna evidence,linguistic evidence and u even do know know turkish dialects…na dene are found to be genetically related to uyghur turks.have u got any idea about shamanism?especially that of the ancient turks?do u know about kapakta kon and ergene kon?haphazardly?your assumptions do not hold water at all but at least mine can…athabashkan languages are very close to turkic ones.agglutinative and inflectionate…have u seen any turkic peoples?do u know about the traditions…i could get all those common words from the researches made by some american scholars.i did not invent them.u have no idea about turkic cultures to make a comparison to those of the natives.have u seen yakut turks and tuvans and tuvins or hkas turks in their traditional clothes?have u watched any shamanist rituals held in siberia?turks did not exist 15 000 years ago and u can just say so?u r really not screaming too hard…go on thinking the way u do.

    Comment by goyathlay — March 26, 2011 @ 3:59 pm

  18. I am descended from Yusef Ben-Ali who came to America, US in the mid 1700’s, I have a paper trail back to this Family, Yusef Ben-Ali was from Middle east/ N.Africa. Now I hear so many of you that claim all the Melungeon and Turks of Sumter,SC were Black and that is the furthest from the truth, I am from this ethnicity and I have had every DNA test that can be done and even after 200 plus years of mixing his Middle east/ N.African Jewish ancestry still shows in my Body. I can’t help but laugh at some of the assumptions that some of you come up with based on racism and that is the truth here. I do not care about this race and that race I care about my family and whether you know it or not this is my family and I thik if you don’t know what you are talking about then maybe you do not need to talk. After 200 plus years my Ethnic mix is 80% Irish-19.7% ME/N.African and .3% NA no Black African here in my DNA so that is that.

    Comment by Taylor — April 30, 2011 @ 3:30 am

  19. taylor…the ottomans were not made up of turks only.the ottoman seamen were captured by the spanish marine forces and were taken to america.in that captured group,it is likely that there wer not only turks but also some other nationalities that used to live in the northern africa where there was a sovereignty of the ottomans during the time.i care about the natives and my nation.so,does that have to make me a racist.if so,be it so…telling the truth is not racism.the melugeon dna was matching in a great quantity to those of the turks along with others ruled by turk ottomans.u need to learn a bit more about history and the latest dna analysis…

    Comment by goyathlay — May 5, 2011 @ 8:02 pm

  20. Congragulations goyathlay…
    Turkish Language and its dialects, history, traditions and religions must be investigated, comparing the similar cultures scientifically. As Turks, we need such a study.
    I believe that we have many close ancient relatives in America.

    Comment by dedekorkut — May 18, 2011 @ 10:42 pm

  21. thank u dedekorkut…the navajo,and apache belong to the athapashkan language family.the dna analysis is said to show a great affinity between them and the turks.moreover,there is a very close relation between the two language branches.the yeniseyan languages of asia show great affinity to the apache language.the yeniseyan languages are also akin to turkic altayan languages.besides,the shamanism is very similar in two nations.the apache used to believe in one creator whom they called usen.the turks before islam mainly believed in one creator.in a native language,the hell is called tano.in preislamic turkic languages it was called tamu.the inka kapaktakon is very similar to ergenokon legend.kapaktakon means kapalı dan çıkış…very close to turkish.kechua language is just like a twin of turkish in many ways.i do not get why some people find it not likely that turks and native americans are related.i guess they owe it all to their derisive manners.melucan is how we articulate the word and melun means cursed.can means soul…it can even be explained by turkish.melun is an arabic word whereas can is turkish.i can cite dozens of rituals common with the natives and the old turkic ones.i hope the native americans will interact with the turks and they are always welcome.i count them as my close relatives and i respect all those warriors who fought knowing that they were going to lose.they dies bravely and massacred and genocided by the white men.the white men has similar projects against the turks but they will never manage that…we are not fools.we know and are aware of every game played.turks are a greater nation than many westerners think.since the known huns and even before them,we existed no matter how hard.
    we built empires in india,china,middle asia and europe..we did that also many times in middle east and northern africa.it is not so difficult to imagine we might have gone to america.see the yoruk kilims(rugs)see how that closeness might come about in mexico,northern america regarding the rugs woven by the natives…then,the one called lurts,here,come and debate with me.scream out to loud:)funny u r in your ignorance of turks.

    Comment by goyathlay — May 23, 2011 @ 9:30 pm

  22. Considering that my father’s family are Huanca/Quechuan from Peru while my mother’s family are K’iche from Guatemala, I fail to see any “turkish/turkic/turanian” associations between my own people and turks. You can’t compose a single list of side by side comparisons of all Native languages to turkish. That’s a big ass fail. NaDene doesn’t count as Amerindians are way older than the NaDene and Eskimo/Aleut groups. Special mention: the two Native groups I belong to are of the much older Amerindian lineage surpassing the NaDene or Eskimos/Aleuts. “Shamanism” isn’t even the sole property of turks as it is a practice common to many cultures of the world. African groups have their own version of shamanism. Perhaps the turks copied off their African ancestors. You do know that turks are African descendants right? After all, they are your family seeing how humans migrated to occupy the rest of the world. If the belief in one creator is what you’re looking for, then wouldn’t the turks be Jews seeing how Jews were some of the earliest monotheistic people? LOL. Say, aren’t you that same turanist that posted that gibberish on Rob’s website at bluecorncomics? LOL Oh man, I knew I could smell nonsense from a mile away. One has to wonder why turanists aren’t keen on seeking their other relatives (Africans, Chinese, Armenians) seeing how all humans are related. Besides, they’re the closest groups to you. LMAO

    Comment by Lurtz — June 12, 2011 @ 1:57 am

  23. lurts,your words do not hold any water…lol is your silly ways and u better lol on…i do not have to convince u.u already believe in african ancestors.it is a tale that people came from africa.i am a turanist?how do u know that?kiche is kishi in turkish.even that nation has that turkic word…and it means the same meaning in both.u really suck there and go on lolling,in a silly way that always objects but not thinks.u have no idea about the shamanism of turks…u have no idea about the history of turks,nor sdo u have any idea about the assertions that the natives mostly spoke tatar especially in the nprthern america.besides,there is a lot of genetic evidence and u seem to have skipped them all over with your weird giggling.all the humans are relatives…u miss some points here because u have that lol way…it must be hurtful for u to see lots of evidence i have jotted down here.linguistic evidence holds water…lasnguages differ by pronounciation,interaction,or getting apart…and there are still words and grammar that looks the same.yakut is turkic.and they live in siberia whereas we live in turkiye.the separation is for about 2000 years…so yakuts and turks cannot understand each other anymore…do u understand where i am trying to get at?so the native americans being remote must have an evolved language while we turks also do…u r a silly man lurts…and it is even clear that u have hardships in understanding in the right dimension…so be it…

    Comment by goyathlay — June 27, 2011 @ 10:03 pm

  24. goyathlay abi, you are now Bilge Tonyukuk!

    Comment by booo — July 13, 2011 @ 6:36 am

  25. I lol because you’re a riot. Kishi means person in turkish but K’iche’ means many trees in the K’iche’ language. Person = many trees? Come again? Oh man that was spectacular. Talk about ownage. So far, you’ve only provided (in the loosest sense of the word), the same regurgitated garbage about language similarities (without providing a list of a comparison of all words in turkish to even one Amerindian language). You then try to backtrack by relenting that languages do change after time passes so as not to put your theories in jeopardy. Kind of late for that. Genetic evidence dictates that we’re all related to a common ancestor that originated in what is now eastern Africa. You still haven’t mentioned why you don’t seek your African relatives since your’e so keen on “relations”. Yakuts are Yakuts and they’re not Amerindian. I’ll be more than happy to inform some Indian folks from up north in Canada about them speaking “tatar” (is that like tartar sauce? lmao). Of course, I’d get the same response like the last time someone posted this turkic/turkish/turanian tripe on an Indian board: that is to say, hogwash and everybody wants to be Indian. Even the usurpation of an Inde’s name by a turkish fanatic is disgusting. He’d be rolling in his grave.

    Comment by Lurtz — July 17, 2011 @ 12:45 am

  26. lurts,u seem to know a lot of turkish…wowww:)that tells me u r not really lurts.kechua is inflectionate and agglutinative just like turkish is…how about that?u came from space to america?lollll!genetic evidence gets into your ass and so does the linguistic evidence.your ancestors were turks.hard to accept that,i can understand u.why do the kechua people look like turkic peoples?why do the kechua people do not have african ancestors but we do?u even condescent boltly to claim armenians are our relatives…are u pretending to be ignorant?languages evolve and so do the morphology…words take on many different meanings as time passes by.u know turkish for sure…:)in the old turkish yarak meant weapon.now it means dick.your assumpions do not hold water loll lurts.yakuts.na dene is yeniseyan and very close to turkic languages.if there is no connection whatsoever,then explain 300 detected words still used in the same meaning with native american languages.why?u can find lots of dna evidence if u search on the internet.lurts,your ancestors came from asia.mongolians,tunghuz,japanese,koreans and turkic nations have great li,nguistic and physical similarities.mongolian is very close to turkic ones.korean is similar but less than mongolian and japanese gets more distand as geographic distance gets bigger.and so the same has happened with our relatives in amer,ica.the distant they got the more evolved the languages became.some silly so called historians used to say the huns’origins are unknown.they added that the huns spoke a turkic language.so why unknown?deliberately unknown…:)later a french scientist analyzed the dna of the huns from the graves found and they matched the turks in turkiye,especially to the ones in western turkiye.the dna sequence was strikingly evident that we are the huns’ grandsons.the hun funeral rituals were almost the same as the old northern american nomadic rituals.lurts,do not forget that words may take on different meanings as time passes by.look at the rugs(kilims)of turks and the navajo and mexican rugs.why are they very similar?the patterns on each culture although no connection?!are almost the same.there are names in canada….yakot….and the name changes dakota lakota….as u go down the map.there is a tribe in canada named tache….they are carriers and it means that.in turkish tashı….:)kayuka,kayak,kayık.=boat.which one is turkish lurts the farting loller?lurts,u r not meant to be turkic even if u r so.we turks love native americans because we are always with the persecuted ones.not like u who love and obey and get assimilated by the ones that got u under.we turks have always been with those who are weak and right,not with those who are strong and oppressive and genocidal.turanism is cool for me and why does it disturb u so much?as a turk of course i should defend turanism.i am not a man pro-european community.
    balam kan was a mayan king.the words sound turkish,kaan,is the turkic version.as time past by it turned into khan,and the han,and as interaction with arabs came about turned into sultan…karwın is amerindian.karın is turkish.kazyun is amerindian,kayın is turkish….they mean the same.go and search which amerindian tribes used the words….loll,u r a riot,u say to me.why do u say that?so,these words are merely coincidential for u:))the asians went to america thousands of years ago.and but still some words survived.soux;what does it mean lurts?suu?in the past did u know that there was a chu empire of turkic origins that lived in china?chu and suu means the same.i suggest that u read.there is a turkic subgroup still existing,ulmek…..so is it a coincidence that there was a nation in mezoamerica called olmec?look at one olmec wrester’s statue and u will see how much it evokes(resembles)a turkic one in middle asia.kon means kun in old turkish.the word is mayan.now in modern turkish as u might also very well know:)gun…thank u for making me do these explanations.perhaps there will be many natives who will read and get curious about their past connected to us.the mentality of the nomadic natives of the north are very close to turkic mentality.they were warriors and were not afraid of death.so are we.even lod curson once the british president used to say turks were the redskins(native americans)of asia and so will their end be like them,during the independence war we fought against the white man.the only difference was that the native americans were genocided and lost but we won.i accept myself as a member of the native americans,too,i lilke the culture,the love of nature they had,and they even used to call elder strangers as uncle or aunt although there were no blood relation with them,just like us who also call elder starngers like that…show me a western culture that does the same.yeah,the huns were not turks,but spoke turkic:))yeah the native americans have nothing to do with turks,but later we see lots of things hard to deny…languages evolve,lurts…u have a lot of learning to make.good luck.

    Comment by goyathlay — July 18, 2011 @ 5:03 am

  27. if i am the one to have written on that person’s blog,then u seem to be tracking me:)come to turkiye,and let us talk better about your african monkey ancestors.u look down on turks:)read the turkic history…u will see that we set up empires in china,india,all asia,europe,africa….and that was for many times…those who look down on turks are envious of our glorious past that no other nation has.u r silly…african languages have no s.o.v structure like turkish.armenian languages are ıranic(persian)and indo european.not altaic:)the chinese are dolico in skulls(the real chinese)armenians vary from large skull to mezo skull type.some are also dolicosephallic.all human beings are brothers and sisters.but lurts,u r not my brother…why does panturkism so bother u,man?scared?do not worry,we are not like the white men…give rob my best regards,whoever that man is…must be your friend…

    Comment by goyathlay — July 18, 2011 @ 5:21 am

  28. the great chief goyathlay would roll in his grave because we are muslims,u allude to that?u count muslims as terrorist,dont u?that is why u say that?i use that name because i look like him a lot physically and facially,u idiot…i own up to the apache wheras they are still looked upon as bad people thanks to hollywood.they called u savages,but we call u brothers.so,howcome did they get u to go so disgusting u jerk?it was not us who massacred u and assimilated u…go and find those who did make u so silly and disgustingly in hatred of turks.who forced geronimo to become a christian?who made a gambler out of a noble warrior?who amputated his head after he was buried?(who made him roll in his grave?)and who keeps the stolen head?u r a lost case…u go on lolling upon your tragedy while denying the many facts cited here.who teaches still the army members to attack by yelling geronimo’s name?why do americans show arabs as terrorists?who exploits the petroleum on those arab lands?who made saddam the king and who subverted him?who assassinated the terrorist without even putting him on trial on the court?who killed geronimo’s people?who massacred the aztecans?the mayans?the inka’s and your people?and then u will find who made your ancestors roll in their even unknown graves while we say we are akin and your brothers…get that jerk?who is disgusting?shamanism of turks and northern natives?not so alike when taken into account the africans?u go to tuva and hkassia and watch the rituals,u silly man.and go and watch the africans and the old northern native americans…see the rug patterns,learn about the kapaktakon and ergenekon myths…learn about ural altaic and indo eurpoean language diferences.no,do not bother…u just go on sniggering and giggling like a petty man.u r not even worth discussing a topic with…why does it bother u so much if we know about our roots?we did not come from america,almost all the native americans including your ancestors went to america from asia and they are the relatives of turks and mongolians.nobody came from africa….does monotheism hurt u so much?what if the jews are monotheistic like muslims?u chrisianized people are polytheistic…that trinity stuff lollll.go on with believing what your masters taught u….turks can be killed but not enslaved,unlike the africans and some of u…i think u have that in common with africans.u get well enslaved alike.ask yourself now who makes geronimo roll in his grave….

    Comment by goyathlay — July 18, 2011 @ 5:56 am

  29. mayan:ahau turkish:ağa english big brother,master
    mayan:akab turkish:akşam english night,evening
    mayan:baat turkish:balta english:axe
    mayan:bakah turkish:buk(mek) english to bend mek is to in english
    ça(cha) turkish:çam(cham) english pine(tree)
    mayan:chetun turkish chetin(çetin) english difficult,not easy to overcome…
    mayan:chol(çol) turkish cholak(çolak) english maimed,crippled in the hand
    mayan:hanhan turkish(hemen) english immediately,in no time
    mayan:kutz turkish kush aztecan kush kush english bird….
    mayan ichil(içil) turkish ichinde(içinde) english inside,in
    mayan ish turkish dishi, english female
    mayan:kashnak turkish kushak(kuşak) english belt
    mayan:kin turkish gün english:day
    mayan kinish,turkish künesh,günesh english sun
    mayan kishe turkish kishi english person,man,as u see kechua may be related to mayan too but may have changed or evoleved in meaning in time….
    mayan:kotcha turkish kocha koca, english old,big,husband…
    mayan kul turkish kul english slave,servant
    mayan. naa turkish ana englsh mum,mother
    mayan ol turkish ol(mak) englsh to be to come into being,happen
    mayan tatak turkish tutkal, english glue
    mayan:tepec,tepek, turkish tepe english hill
    chapul tepec is mayan, chapulcu tepesi turkish english brigand’S hill,still found in mexica as a name of a place.
    mayan:top turkish:top(lamak) english to gather,collect
    mayan:toz turkish toz english dust
    mayan:otak turkish otag englsh:home,tent
    mayan:tul turkish tolu,dolu,english filled,full
    mayan:tup turkish dip english:bottom part
    mayan tzekel,turkish chakıl, english:pebble,brook
    mayan:ueez,turkish uyuz,english mangy
    mayan uish,turkish:ishe(mek) english to urinate
    mayan ul,turkish:ulash(mak),english:to arrive,to reach
    mayan:yash,turkish:yash,english fresh,raw,humid
    mayan:yashıl<turkish:yashıl,english:green
    u see lurts the lol-man?mayans are too our relatives.kechuan and mayan are agglutinative and inflectionate languages that are similar to finnish,hungarian,turkic ones,mongolian,tunghuz,manchu,korean and japanese…which set up the ural altaic languages.your claim that it was 15000 years or whatever u went to america is enough for a language to evolve from the motherland ones.
    i could have given loads of more affinities with other native american languages if most of them were not genocided in many ways,not physically but also culturally.
    zatecan:chocalate(i cannot recall how it is definitely written in aztecan phonology but in turkish it means chok tatlı,english:very sweet
    inka and huron and algonquin:kon,turkish(yakut dialect)kün,turkiye turkish gün,künesh,günesh
    proto inka,inka,north america:atau,atağ,atea,ata,hataa,turkish:ata english ancestor
    terrawa:u,allentiac:ut,lule:uya,aymara:utara,uta turkish:uy,utağ,üy,ev,yuva,otağ english house,home
    nahuatl:tchi,turkish:tchitchek(çiçek) english:flower
    mayan:küch,turkish göch(göç),english:migration
    kwaiutl:hkaz;turkish:kez,ghez(mek),english:have a walk,stroll,
    ogomchi:kayak,kayuka,turkish:kayık,english boat
    zatecan:itzcuintli,turkish:it,english dog
    aztecan kush kush,turkish:kush,english:bird
    zakapo:yangi,turkish:yeni,english new…
    from the north to the south in many amerindian:te turkish:de,te,locative suffix,english:at,in
    miwok kuchi,turkish küchük(küçük)until the 14th century,kitchi,english:small,
    otomi:kiçeeç,turkish,küçük,english:small
    patwin,sata,peru:kir turkish:kir….english:dirt
    arawak:chakira,turkish:chakır,engglish:grayish blue
    north america:tano,turkish tamu,english hell
    toltek:ig,turkish:iki,english:two toltek bas,turkish besh,english five
    inka:ak kapana,turkish:ak kapı,english the white door.
    navajo and pima:hava su,turkish:hava su,english:air water
    toltek:tanığ,ton atığ,nahuatl:tahu,tunallı,tahaneri,tekvitli,sioux:wakan tanka,turkish tengri,tanrı,tanyeri
    english:god,creator
    aucas,arokan:tokin,terken,turkish tekin,tarkan(respectively)englsh:prince,ruler prince
    kechua inka:kipunda,turkish ipinde,english:)u guess now that u know kecha,lurts:)
    kechua:tuka,trurkish:tükür(mek)english to spit
    kechua:paku:turkish bak;pak,english look…
    kechua:pak ta;turkish bak daa(black sea region dialect of turkish)
    kechua:khapao,turkish:kaba,english:rough,tough
    kechua:ipa,turkish:apa,aba,abla,english:big sister
    kechua:ku,turkish:ko,koy(mak)sana kodum lurts,fena kodum:))english:put
    kechua:kasha,turkish:kısh,english wintekechua:kul'i,turkish kül,english:ash with fiery red
    kechua:kal'ı,turkish kalın,english:thick
    kechua:karwın,turkish:karın,english,part of the stomach
    kechua:kasa,turkish kes(mek),english:to cut off
    kechua:tawga,turkish:tağ,dağ,english:mountain
    kechua:takhıla,turkish:tağıl(mak)dağılmak),english:disperse,disband,to scatter
    kechua:khipu,turkish ip,english rod,string
    kechua:chur,turkish dur,english:stop
    kechua:as,turkish az,english few,a little
    kechua:la,turkish la,le,ile,(suffix in both),englsih:with,
    kechua:mi?,turkish:mian affix to make a question of a sentence..
    guetamala,venezuella:satsi tepe,turkish sesli tepe,english tumultous hill…
    there are many more but that much is enough to prove that we and kechuans had a past together.u were vere always there.u were not created there.u merely split from us the asians(ural altaic ones)and made your way to america by means of bering strait or flew:))
    if it were possible that a man who could speak all the turkic dialects,and who could analyze all the native american languages(sadly impossible because of gencides and assmilation that made many forget their languages)i hold the opinion that many more close relations and simlarities could have neen observed and laid in front of our eyes fully…lurts,geronimo will never be rolling.he would be proud of me as i spent a lot of time studying the native americans.so should u be…who cares about u natives?who gives it a shit?but,i do care…i even prayed many times for your nation and all the other amerindians…i was sad when i read about what the hairy white men did to u.i cried when i read about the wounded knee.i respected tashunka vuitko,tatanka yotanka,geronimo,and victorio…i have many books about amerindian cultures,history and i bought them although i sometimes had hardship eking out…we are tatars,tuvans,altayans,uzbeks,kazaks,kırghız,turkmens,azeris,karachays,uyghurs,yakuts,kumuks,dolgans,hkasians,and all other turkics….am i guilty because i love my nation with all the subgroups?am i delinquent for studying the proven kinship we have with our long gone relatives?for your information,i am of yoruk descent(that means nomadic oghuz)do not fool yourself by believing that u have been always there…..where did all those similarities of culture,language and dna come from?talk to me in a way that u prove something.come up with evidence that verifies that u kechua are not from asia formerly….the turkic history is greater than your dun head can imagine.and your dunce brains can easily disdain all the language evidence elaborated here.i love geronimo and i use his name.if he were alive,he would appreciate me sparing a lot of time for all the native americans.even if i were african or russian or american white,i would again be goyathlay…the apache are warriors,and so am i!
    i fight using my brain and books.i love nature.i love macu pichu,what sort of a stomacache does it cause in your brains that i love amerindians?your arguments do not hold any water lurtz,but i have cited here loads of things and i made sacrifices to learn it all.u better go and scratch your itching ass while lolling.u go your way and leave us alone.do not stand in the way.the more u talk the more evidence i will bring forth and u will sadly lose(while making it evident that ur pathetic.)kechua and huanca or whatever u r,u all have a turkic past and turkic dna and lisguistic and cultural aspects.even the etruscans were found to be 97% genetically relatives of us.that was a surprise to the italian scientists who discovered that.they did not lol like u but worked.and i try my best to learn each day about many things instead of acting up to people and their studies.instead of lolling u may wanna bark at me now.it feels that u may even want to bite me…etruscan language also has a lot of similarities to turkic languages.turk meant strong.centuries later,persians used it to mean beautiful.we turks never support the persecutors,tyrants.we are always with the ones who are subject to violence and persecution.do not mistake us for the white men.u go and please your masters.geronimo believed in one god.(usen)those who assimilated u forced him to convert to christianity.he never believed in three gods.the apache never ate swine.turks never ate swine.i am proud of using his name as he inspires me to learn…i would still love him and native americans even if i were a jew.lots of people would wonder at the vocabulary and my letters with respect.we turks are the native americans of asia as lord curson the british prime minister once said in 1918…he used to say that our end would be the same as the native americans'end…look,man,goyathlay is still alive.and turks are still alive despite the once russian and currently the chinese violations of human rights.the mohicans and apache,and the mayans etc still exist in the hearts of turks who think like me.am i a fanatic?if so,why do u care,just get the hell out…should everybody be like u?what is it to u if i am really fanatic?i am a fanatic of native americans,the turkic world,boxing,jiu jitsu,the primitive culture,religions,philosophy,history,wieghtlifting,basketball…and many many things.and why if u do not want to come around read my letters?just ignore them…goodbye,lurts….i hope lurtz will not hate u for using that name.i am happy now as i had the chance to put forward many new things most people do not know.u should thank me for writing all the kechuan words for u….sorry if i made mistakes,sure i am no expert…thanks everyone for reading and especially those who find the topic interesting and who appreciate me endeavouring to prove something that i believe in…

    Comment by goyathlay — July 18, 2011 @ 11:11 am

  30. So much tl;dr it makes me think you’ve got shit in the brain flying every which way but loose. Every single Quechuan looks “Turkish”? Not from my family. In essence, you’re a sad little man who feels it is his prerogative to elevate turkish “history” by co-opting the heritage of other people and by playing the victim (turks playing the victim is ironic considering that turks were aggressors in historical incidents). And churning out the “You Natives aren’t Native because you’re immigrants from Asia” (same diatribe used by Euro-Americans who have a thing against Indians, tells me more about your desperate attempt to legitimize yourself by denigrating others (under the false pretense of “kinship”). A bit like German Indian hobbyists attaching themselves to Indian heritage believing they embody the true essence of Native more than Natives. Yeah, you exude that vibe 100%. BTW, aren’t the Tache from Cali not Canada? LAWL. Get your groups right. Lakota/Dakota stemmed from Yakut or Yakot? I’ll inform an acquaintance from Pine Ridge and ask them about it. In the meantime, post some of your gibberish on Indianz. I’ll be sitting by with a bag of popcorn enjoying the show. By the by, taking words from several Indian languages without using one as a sole example of comparison is shoddy linguistics. You’re like Ed Ziomek II.

    P.S. Indians aren’t Turks no matter how wet your panties get over the idea. Take a cold shower.

    P.S.S. Your ancestors were African as much as you hate to admit it (all modern human populations in fact). Makes me wonder why you don’t bother contacting them for “kinship”. El Oh El, wannabe book Indian.

    Comment by Lurtz — July 18, 2011 @ 3:51 pm

  31. u r babbling:)u do not need to get convinced…u opt for what u wannabe:))u r raving about things i did not allude to.anyway,good luck…i have cited enough of ideas that native americans are akin to us.wannabe?u r ridiculous blaming me for that:)africans are insulted by that theory by being the base step of so called evolution theory…it hurts u so much,all i say here and i do not get why…meanwhile go ahead with your pop corns and add more to your weight:)junk food is all u have to enjoy yourself as well as yuor junk ideas.bye lurts…i may be fanatic but u really look frantic in your last letter now that all those kechuan words are in the open…aha,by the way,any indian is free to believe in what they want.some may see the point some may reject or oppose to the ideas here.it is all up to them.why does it make u go mad that i love native americans?modern american life of the white man allures many people in the world.if they love the modern american life,no big deal for me.are they wannebes when they emulate the white or black usa life?no?so i am a wannabe when i like the old native american ways…wow,that my friend is really very fair.none of us are african nor our languages.they are not anybody’S ancestors.they are our brothers,and even though u may not admit,also yours,too. you are happy big man:)congrats…ignorance makes the hapyy man happy…

    Comment by goyathlay — July 18, 2011 @ 5:05 pm

  32. p.s. please lurts,do think or live the way u like and do be arrogant by overlooking all the things written here.it is your life,your ways,your gluttony,your beliefs or ideas.and leave ”the little sad man” alone…:))
    northern natives do visit turkiye a lot every year.and the chief of the navajo federation once said ”we speak athabashkan which is akin to your language.we are relatives…let us make business together”.and be happy with your ideas.nobody is blaming u for anything.most natives of the northern america have heard about the views that i have said here.and on the internet they can get even more information than i have reeled off:)nobody tells u here that all the kechuan words are turkish.i just cited here the ones detected,some of them.if it looks awkward to u,then do not adopt the ideas…if being a stereotype of a western man eating pop corn watching tv makes u happy,(while getting fatter and fatter each day),it is your choice.wannabe..nevertheless,that activity of yours complies well with the heritage u think u have from your ancestors.:))it is no use talking like this…i have done my best to give chrystal clear lingustic gists here…and manwhile all u do is to howl or bark or mock,or bite…ok,ok,my views are loose..:)watch your tv,consume.here in this debate so far as i am concerned,i am the sad winner and u r the happy loser..:)
    please hold your temper,u may have a heart attack and nobody wants that…consult with your friend in canada…accept what he says…but please stop barking…instead of stalking goyathlay,which certainly be not me all the time as there may be other’wannabes’ apart from me,watch your tv and eat pop corns.

    Comment by goyathlay — July 18, 2011 @ 5:54 pm

  33. i have read all the comments and it’s obvious that lurts is not much of a disputant. i understand it from your wording. you have some kind of problem that you can not answer goyathlay’s arguments in scientific ways. you just derive something funny from your head and laugh as if you gave something that could keep goyathlay’s mouth closed. if you’re to stand up for your arguments you have to read a lot about this issue from different sources. i don’t know if it would help you but, you can look for tahsin mayatepek’s reports which are nearly a hundred years old and gathered at mexico. the reports tells the cultural and linguistic similarities beetween the old-pure turkish with mayan language. i mean the turkish that turks speak a tousand years ago.

    historians, linguistis and biologs give you too many proofs that native americans and turks are so close to each other in various issues( many of which had been given by goyathlay), you should chance your rude and illiterate wording first and give strong evidence to defend your idea secondly.

    may the peace with you all.

    Comment by flying naive dog — July 19, 2011 @ 3:17 am

  34. flying naive dog,thank u…

    Comment by goyathlay — July 19, 2011 @ 7:34 pm

  35. tache ”yokut” tribe in california,lurts,u r right:)yakot:))again:)…lurtz,please search in the google by writing:
    1)”study supports bering strait migration,siberian origin to native americans”…that is a scientific dna study at http://www.cyberwest.com…..so,how about that?
    2)july 25th 1998,the turkish newspaper called hurriyet gives the news.write webarsiv.hurriyet.comt.tr/1998/07/25/57351.asp” on the google and see the news.the news was taken from the russian ” izvestia ” newspaper.that is the reference.get it translated.u will see the proven dna affinity of the tuvan turks to the native americans.tuvans are still partly shaman…see the tuvan shamans on the google searches.see the resemblance of the garments and all…tuvans originally belong to the tokuz oghuz branch of the oghuz subgroup of turks…
    3)please search ”mtDNA variation of aboriginal siberians reveals distinct genetic affinities with native americans” at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1682407/pdf/ajhg00054-0048.pdf
    4)and please have a look,write again on the google and search by”first americans all from siberia,study confirms” at livescience…www.livescience.com/7412-americans-siberia-study-confirms.html……
    5)write ” central siberian originfor the american Y chromosomes” this is another very serious article…
    i can even list more but that is enough for now.tell your blog friend rob,too about all these pieces of scientific evidence with scientific references:)
    lurtz,you have made a fool of yourself by your lols indeed.you are pathetic and a big loser…am i a little man?i like humility and i never said i was a great man.but your arrogance and rudeness against me and turks is real offence we indulge.
    my argument is still loose?gibbering one is me?your assumpions regarding these words u have used fails short of meaning totally with the very last evidences i put forth…lots more in the sack but no more need is left…chrystal clear now?
    rob should know all those facts too and so should u…i do not want a thank from u as i know u will not.
    siberian communities,to be more clear,the aboriginal ones are mainly of turkic and mongolian descent…mongolian and turkic languages are very close.and but your assumpion that chinese may be our ancestors can be debated.the chinese language is not grammatically like mongolian or turkic ones.besides,mongolian and turkic skull types are similar wheras the original chinese ones are found to be dolicocephallic,like those of most africans andnordic europeans.ours is mainly brachycephallic…u should learn those terms…:)
    but i agree with u on that the native americans are the first inhabitants of the new continent.you are the real owners of the land which later was taken by force by the white man.u are the grandsons of turko mongolian peoples.mongolian language is very close to turkish regarding grammar and vocabulary.
    all said,i should get going now..the russian and american scientists have laid the facts just before the eyes by evidence and i brought them over for the people who wonder about the native americans being related to turks.linguistic evidence is also easy to find.ENJOY THE SHOW NOW,EATING YOUR POP CORN:))AM İ ED ZİOMEK2?U WANT TO MAKE ME LOL BUT I will not as the topic requires seriosity.
    u say i am a sad little man:))u lose,u r a loser,and u will always be…and that might make u happy.
    arrivederci,so long,good bye, lurtz…do not deny your ancestors from now on.the ancestors of the natives are who?gibberish,am i?go have a shower now,must have been a shock for u all those dna lineage of yours to us.the west showed u all as savages to the world in the past.were u?no!the same west shows turks to be ferocious to the world and u buy that…ironic.go on lolling to keep my mouth closed or to deter me from writing as u did now.everybody will be laughing at you if u do after reading the documents listed above.bye…

    Comment by goyathlay — July 20, 2011 @ 3:26 am

  36. 1 and 2 are dead links nor does Google lead to either article. Lame. 3 is pretty common knowledge but if you were to actually look up Natl Geographic’s genographic project, you’d notice that all populations share haplogroups to varying degrees and that overlapping is expected. If you bothered to look up results for that project, you’d notice that Haplogroup F (which occurs in Central Asian populations) occurs in SE Asian, Papuan New Guinea (you know, the fellows that look like ***Black*** folks), Evenks, Borneo, Austronesian in the S Pacific Islands. Haplogroup R (found in modern-day populations in Turkey) is found in southern Russia, Georgia, moved over to Central Asia and has its origins in a female from the N Haplogroup which is a recent descendant that migrated out of ***Africa***. That’s right, you’re kin to African populations, no matter how you slice it. Haplogroup X (two mutations of it) found in modern European populations in low frequency and modern Evenks (again to a low frequency) but at a higher frequency among American Indians. So Turks are related to Europeans (Near East, Caucasus and Mediterranean region) as well (and no this is not a recent derivation, not at 15,000 years). This is just mtDNA derived from the maternal line.

    https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/lan/en/atlas.html

    Have a blast, goon. It all goes back to Africa, one way or the other.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2909803.stm While you’re at it. East Africa, moron.

    If you’d bothered to notice, there is one continent (for reasons we won’t get into) named Eurasia. Modern-day Europeans, modern-day Asians and modern-day American Indians trace back to a common ancestry that diverged in what is now the Middle East.

    All your jibber jabber coming from an idiot that thinks Africans are placed at the bottom rung of evolution when all modern-day populations continued to develop (you think Africans are apes or something? el oh el), they have the oldest lineage but are by no means unevolved. Grow some sense. What explains the dolichocephalic skull shape of some human remains found in the Americas? Not all remains are brachycephalic (terms I know, dumbshit, considering these are terms often used in arguments against white folks who claim that the Solutrean theory legitimizes a paleo-European presence in the Americas before American Indians). Human variation within a population, have you heard of it?

    All this still doesn’t legitimize any of your pro-turk arguments as paleo-peoples never had any such cultural moniker that exists today. The Etruscans may have lived in modern-day Turkey but this was back during Anatolian times before the turkish presence in that area. That’s akin to claiming America is white because eons from know, white remains will be common in America. Biggest failure on your part.

    This begs the question, why aren’t you promoting a pro-African cultural awareness seeing how your ass and mine descended from that initial population? After all, all modern human groups exist because of that initial migration. turks didn’t appear spontaneously. Common ancestry does not indicate a paternalistic “ownership” over other related groups. No such thing as a “turkish” grandfather or a turko-mongolian group back then, considering no such entity existed eons ago. Whatever paleo-population that was is long gone by now and developed into different entities that exist as they do now. Your superiority complex is astounding. And you claim I’m the arrogant one. It’s not American Indians going around claiming half the world in an effort to boost our egos. Hold on a sec: LOL. Otherwise, you’d have no qualms against Afrocentric nutjobs that are found throughout the internet and promote the concept that Blacks founded everything (even your turkish “civilization”). Hmm, seems quite akin to the ideas being presented by thou thus far. You do accept that you turks are actually Black Africans and all your heritage is Black African, correct? How does the shoe fit on the other foot? This will probably fly over your head anyway.

    I’ve also noticed that the pseudo-linguistic babble comparing various words without a proper systematic method of good linguistics was carried out by early Kemalist turks. Mayatepek was one of them. That alone refutes any of his work considering the political agenda during Kemal’s leadership.

    Even turks on a certain messageboard (steppes is the keyword here) know that idiots like you employ fringe theorists and manipulation of genetics and linguistics (particularly the latter, as it was mentioned in one thread) by clowns like you. And they’re turks, real actual turks, so it pleases me that not all turks are infected by the wannabe-Indian Turanist lunacy that’s so evident in you. This site here, is a magnet for the latter, though (as can be seen by your “supporters”). I use that term loosely because I could just as well be talking about your sockpuppets.

    No such thing as a “turkish Indian” just as there is no such thing as an Ethiopian turk. Look at it that way. It should clear your head a bit.

    Comment by Lurtz — July 21, 2011 @ 6:48 am

  37. u r talking in vain…none are dead links.write and get the pages…u believe in something and go on doing so.dna evidence is just there.and so is the linguistic affinities….u r not worth a person discussing the issue with.the turanists did not carry out those researches.your arguments are really not informative about anything.lurtz,i guess u should just end it up.u always use the term wannabe…there are lots of turkeologists from many different nations.does that make them wannAbes?they,especially hungarians have made lots of studies about the turkic history.there are many french historians that write about the turks.so are they wannabes?looking down on the listed genetic studies makes u a fool.u are really the idiot one.it pleases u that not all the turks are infected by the wannanbe indian turanist lunacy that is so evident in me…so go on being pleased by that…so,i am the clown.wow,your claims are great and becomes a sill jerk mouth.u are a loser…u lost the debate.u cannot give any information that proves there is no connection.u try to bark from a point of view but it means nothing.your ancestors are us.and all is evident by researches made.i am not claiming any of those.if u write all the links by typing to search,u will see that i they work.we do not believe in evolution theory.and that theory is for u to claim…if u write the headings of the links by typing,u will see that none is dead.i know why u are angry.the southern american native americans and perhaps some others from the north have a belief that they were created in america.and u talk about white men trying to justify himself telling u that u also came from soemwhere as u accuse them of getting your lands.and on the other hand,u do not like turks.it is very obvious.lurtz,i am a turanist.i am also a muslim.i guess that is what u hate.i am not a wannabe.and u really are afraid of turks.your culture is yours.i do not say your culture is ours.it is a PROVEN FACT THAT THE NATİVE AMERİCANS CAME FROM ASİA,MİDDLE SİBERİA,SİBERİA,AND MİDDLE ASİA.THE LANGUAGE(AGGLUTİNATİVE,İNFLECTİONATE STRUCTURE OF THE NATİVE MAYAN,KECHUA ETC.) MATCHES URAL ALTAİC LANGUAGES.THE DNA AFFİNİTİES AND LANGUAGE SİMİLARİTİES ALONG WİTH THE VOCABULARY ALSO PROVES THAT U CAME FROM ASİA.THE İNTERACTİON WAS CUT OFF AFTER MİGRATİONS AND BUT SOME VOCABULARY SURVİVED.THE LİSTED VOCABULARY ABOVE İS NOT MY İNVENTİON.NONE OF THEM İS MY WORK.THE VOCABULARY WAS DETECTED BY AMERİCAN LİNGUİSTS…AND ONE OF THE LİNGUİSTS THAT CLAİMED THAT SOME NATİVE AMERİCANS SHE/SHE STUDİED SPOKE TATAR.THERE ARE 320 WORDS İN COMMON WİTH NATİVE AMERİCAN LANGUAGES UNTİL NOW.THERE İS NOTHİNG U HAVE LEFT TO TALK OR DEBATE OVER.İT İs JUST VERY CLEAR.THERE ARE MANY OTHER SİMİLARİTİES.U HAVE NO PROOF THAT U ARE NOT FROM ASİA.
    BELİEVE ME,U WOULD NEVER BE ABLE TO LOL OR USE THE RUDE TERMS U USED HERE İF WE WERE FACE TO FACE.İT İS EASİER ON THE KEYBOARD.U R A RUDE DUNCE AND D U JUST GOO ON BABBLİNG.U R AFRAİD OF THE LETTERS İ WROTE HERE.DO NOT U HAVE SELF CONFİDENCE?U R AFRAİD THAT NATİVES WİLL READ THEM.U R AFRAİD THAT THEY WİLL LEARN…THE LİSTED VOCABULARY İS NOT DEVİSED WELL?U BRİNG FORTH YOUR ACADEMİC WRİTİNGS AND LET US SEE HOW WELL U DEVİSE THEM.”mi?” is a question making suffix both in turkish and kechuan:so,mere cincidence.all is a mere coincidence?u r really so ignorant and u bring out that more at each of your letters.good luck lurtz:))i will always inform the native americans that we are akin…it is up to them to accept or not.i do not have to,as they mostly know about the stufff.go on barking jerk:)there is one clown here and that is u:))u r a silly white man wannabe.:))u r a puppet,too.these proofs drive u crazy and u always deny…lol…lmao…great!the links are not dead.type them and get them.do not demand everything ready already.sweat a bit…by the way,i am not native american.i just use the word goyathlay to seem like a wannabe:))i am interested in the native american cultures and roots to look more like a clown and wannabe:))that is what lurtz says…let us not wrong him:)lurtz,have a good day.u hate me ,i know…:)

    Comment by goyathlay — July 21, 2011 @ 2:00 pm

  38. do not just click on the links…they are not dead,u r just deliberately doing that because u r just a pathetic denier and liar.lurts,u really make people laugh at your pathetic manners.type the headings i gave and u can find them.or type the links above and so can u find them.all the links are ok.there are many scientific reports and studies that consolidate my views.i did not get them from space.i did not even know the amerinds were akin to us before i read many articles that give scientifically about the kinship.none of the researches are carried out by turanists.they are made by americans,and russians.here the debate subject is not who the ancestors of turks are.here the topic is natives and turks.u are really going mad because u used to believe in creation at america.and your attitude really stinks and reveals how lowly ways and manners u have.it does not become a native but it really resembles those of the nasty masters of yours.who are they?those who defeated u and got your lands.go and blame them and vomit your anger upon those who enslaved u,who defeated u,who got your lands from u.u have an infriority complex and all u do is find fault with the studies and even at the 5 links i jotted down.u r a typical man who prtetends to be blind in a vile and vain obstinacy.u use a deragotary language and u go offensive because u have nothing to say except for some theatre brought here by national geaography.i give u academic links and u give what?lol.all u can do is deride and deny pathetically.all u can do is to adress to people by your vulgar tongue.not all the american natives have your attitude…does that please me?İT İS UP TO THEM TO GET THE TRUTH OR NOT.i am a lunatic man?are u a psychiatrist now?:))who the hell are u?u think u know so much but u cannot even defend your arguments agains my or the scientific findings.even a blind man can see the closeness of the words listed.where do the words come from?outer spaceread kapakatkon of the inka and the ergenekon of the turks.both legends are almost the same?is that similarity a fact or a lie?why are even some myths and legends the same?all those prove that u had your roots in asia and u descended from the turks.laugh on pathetically:)go on using your idiosyncarsies.some indians say that turks might have come from america and that shows really a bitterly funny conduct.evolution theory suggests ape ancestors and such:))accordingly the first humans were africans who evolved from the apes:)))and so they found the basis of the first chain.the last chain of the evolution reaches to the whites who have blond hair and colored eyes,that is an arrogant theory used by the west,and it reaslly debases the blacks.i do not believe in the theory.it is not proven.some silly people find a monkey skull and measure the age of it declaring that it was the ancestors of humankind.here the subject matter is not evoultion theory.here we talk about natives and turks.not africans.so,u totally get lost in youre arguments by digressing from the topic turks are your ancestors.get that into your maloperating head.read the data i listed.it shows all the proof.ok,deny it and make yourself clear.u have some sort of a problem with me that u wanna settle down:)how about fighting man?man up and fight me.i am sure you would even attack me.because u cannot even discuss….i look on you as a severely mentally charged idiotic man.that is who u r.u have no proof that falsifies my words.all u do is rave and giggle like a slut,not like a true man.there vare lots of turks and native americans who think like me.if that bothers u in some way,u may go as bothered and insecure as possible.all the five links i wrote down is for the attention who wants to learn the truth.type the headings,and the links,do not just click on them.there,u will see the sheer truth in scientifically explained ways by scientists who are not turanists or turks.
    i will not even read your silly off the topic letters.i will go on writing here to talk about some other affinities found.every year natives do come to turkiye.and they see by evidence how much they look like us.they even cnfess to that.once i listened to a navajo man talking like this” i thought i was looking at a family album of mine when i saw the nomadic khazak turks’ photographs”
    to conclude,i laid down the facts here and u proved nothing but i did.u r a bitterly whining and whimpering dog that tries to bark but your attempts to prove something is a total failure.do not belittle your ancestors.do not belittle your ancestors from asia.that will earn u nothing.u r angry and u talk like that.i would not rather discuss in such terms.i list many things.i like references as to prove what is what.
    i am a wannabe or not does not change the fact that u came from asia.nor does it change that u have your roots in asia.my being a turk or a turanist does not change the listed five proofs of dna…u r babbling.u have not much to say about the topic except for barking at me.there are many more articles and scientific dna evidence about the lineage.u deny your ancestors and that makes u a misbegotten one.
    go as mad as u like.the evidence is given by me here with strong references.:)el oh el:))is that what your best is?funny.

    Comment by goyathlay — July 21, 2011 @ 3:53 pm

  39. lurtz,i know about those inetrnet people who talk about whether indians have turkic ancestry or not.some of them are turks.they are ignorant people just like u who only talk but do not study the facts.here are the facts that will make them look silly like u.the genetic evişdence.paleo siberians are turkic.their grandsons show the genetic simialrities as well as the linguistic ones.they always say on those websites,like u do”lol,lmao,or natives cannot be turks.are everybody turkic?”in my opinion u r not a native.
    the kapaktakon means getting out of a closed land.according to the legend,a disaster kills everyone.(this is a myth that inkas got from the proto inkas and made some additions to the original version)only the ancestor of mancho kapak,named atağ gets saved.according to various beliefs,this ancestor takes sanctuary in either a creator sun-god,or his son and daughter refuges in a cavethis place kapactakon is an isolated place and is closed to the outer world.as time passes off,the creator vir-ak-kodga(ek-ak-koca)gives them a piece of stone.they use the stone and melt the rocks with it.and they get out of the isolated place with a coyote or a wolf,or a jackal with them,later conquering the world.the equiator legends also name vir ak koca or quetzal koatl as tekn-uitli…(in turkish it means tekin kutlu…)=the holy prince…
    (HYERDAHL,PAGE NO:274-275)
    (AND GO İN SEARCH OF THE ERGENEKON VERSİON OF THE TURKS.)…the ergenekon is a legend that tells about how turks got out of a closed up land…according to the myth,turks were killed by an enemy and only a girl and a boy gets saved.in another version,only one turk gets saved and his arms and legs were cut off.a female wolf called asena,achina,or achena feeds the boy.the little boy and girl,or as the other version tells,they refuge to a cave first and then to a place which is isolated from the world.this place is called ergenekon.one day the goktanrı(creator)sends then a holy wolf and they find a way to get out under the leadership of the wolf.first they melt the iron mountains and then they make thier way out as great population.they conquer the world after getting out.
    so there is not only some sort of linguistic or dna evidence but also similarities between the legends that are not found in most nationalities’ cultures.
    lurtz,go on denying as much as u can.i talk by evidences.i do not behave like u with meaningless words.
    the names of the inka versions also sound turkic.we have mancho as a name.manko in inka language.kapak means kapalı in turkish.it means closed,cover,wrapping,etc,in english.the inka ak kapana means ak kapı in turkish.the white door.i have cited many things here enough to prove my hypothesis whereas your assumptions are just lingering as short of evidence.
    new nations are born from older nations.u came from asia and became different as u were left isolate from your ancestors.i studied lingusitics too at university.the african languages are not S,O.V(SUBJECT,VERB,OBJECT)NOR ARE THEY AGGLUTİNATİVE,NOR İNFLECTİONATE LİKE TURKİSH,MONGOLİAN,OR MAYAN…
    so,i come here with loads of evidence wheres all u can show is just a national geaographic stuff.
    analyze the mexican rugs,the navajo ones,and all the amerindian ones and then analyze the kilims of the oghuz(yoruk)…very similar,too,just like the genetic affinities,just like the shamanism,just like the linguiatic features…they are like brothers if not as much as twin brothers.:)visit turkiye and stop by.i have a lot more to teach u.after all that cursing at me,i guess u will not have the guts to do so.do not worry,i will not knock u out by fists.i will K:O. u by the intellectual punch.:))
    see all the five internet connections i listed above regarding the genetic affinities.type them.they are still there and the websites are not dead.u even deny those scientific things and u go on barking at me rudely and cheekily.u r brazen faced.u r really a blind man who cannot see the light.why are u blind?because u do not want to see.your blindness is a character of yours,not your eyes.u gp on thanking god there are still turks who do not believe.they are simply jerks like u.and in turkiye not only turks live.there are kurds,armenians,greeks,who pretend to be turks outside but when the are on the net,they show their ugly faces that hate turks.u have no stout background about the topic.it is very obvious.i do not need supporters here.why?does it hurt u so much and everybody is a clown but u:=)get out of here if u do not enjoy my writings.i will carry on.i have listed many things but u have not yet even come up with anything yet.are u rob?are u a pathetic white who pretends to be native?even if so,it does not matter.i am sure that people who have read my letters have learnt lots of things they did not know priorly.
    conclusion:=native americans are found to be genetically related to turkic nations.it proves also that the natives first homeland before americas was asia.the linguistic and cultural facts sustain all the genetics and vica versa.wow,u know kemalism.bravo…atha hualpa means and sound like ata alp in turkish.we call kemal as ata turk:))ata alp means the great ata=father…do u know who atha hualpa is?u should as u say u r a native american.or wannabe:) thank u for going mad and writing thereby giving me the opportunity to inform people of the verified lineage between the natives and turks.if it were not for u,i would not write down many evidential information here.i am serious in thankink u.i am not mocking now.
    lurts,please do not deprive us of your lovely lols or lmao’S:)
    the more u try,the more u go down…:))is that gibbering,again?be it so:))
    americans say” we bring democrasy to middle east” it is a lie.
    sumerians who invented the writing has turkic skull types,a language similar to turkic with 3500 turkic words found,an agglutinative,inflectionate s.o.v. type of language typival in altaic languages where all turks came from.we have more right to say we brought civilization to many nations.the crusaders who attacked the turks did see for the first time binoculars,compass,fireworks,and met science…in middle east.the indulus arabs taught mant things to the west when they were ruling ,in spain.arabs and turks taught the world lots of things.we are your ancestors,we brought civilization to the middle east…
    that must be hard to imagine for u as well as some turks who are ignorant.said enough.bye lurtz…lol:=)

    Comment by goyathlay — July 21, 2011 @ 6:05 pm

  40. hi everybody.excuse me for the typos.i had to write very fast…

    Comment by goyathlay — July 21, 2011 @ 7:16 pm

  41. lurtz u think u can be the only one who is rude here.shit is your name and your bastard ideas.u r not competent.u are just a bullshit,a dung,some sort of manure that is no use…u just go mad and curse at me.u just wanna fight?it will be unlikely u beat me in a fight either as i am a good figher.hiding behind the internet all u can do is to act like a ruffian.i am sure i can knock u out not only in a debate but also in actual fight.u r such a jerk and a shit.u r a douche.u r merely a despicable person.
    whatever i say u just can swear in return.go as mad as u want.the more evidence u see the madder u go,lol.as u have nothing to say u show the behavior of a loser.some people get beaten and they smile or laugh.seen that in many fights in kick boxing or muay tjhai.u r an irremiable shit that thinks he is a learned man.weirdo loser…lol…u feel insecure about the natives who will read and assess these.u r just a junk who cannot debate as your brain is devoid of knowledge…the more i wrote the more insane u went.:)lol.where did all those common vocabulary come from?where did all those dna kinship come from?where did all the patterns on the rugs and lsimilar legends come from?ask your mother….:))u really get me to laugh…lol.u r just a vagabond who hates turks for some reason u know best.either talk sensibly of get the hell out…or go on barking.u r a dog that barks at science,not me.

    Comment by goyathlay — July 21, 2011 @ 7:34 pm

  42. Nope, one is a dead link and the other did not turn up any results in Google when it was typed as presented into the search engine. Cry moar, faggot. There are agglutinative African languages (Swahili, dumbass), Bantu is another agglutinative language belonging to the Niger-Congo family of African languages. Igbo is another agglutinative African language. A number of nearly extinct languages forming the Great Andamese group (Aka-khol, Aka-cari, etc) are agglutinative. Agglutinative languages aren’t the sole “property” of turks. Your fail. The Dogon language of Mali (African country) has an SOV order. The Mande and Senufo languages (African also) possess the SOV order. Don’t cry like a little bitch now.

    Another serious fail on your part, if you had bother to read
    “Modern-day Europeans, modern-day Asians and modern-day American Indians trace back to a common ancestry that diverged in what is now the Middle East.”

    Where did I mention a disconnect in human relations? Can you read, gimp? Did it fly over your head when I mentioned that all humans derived from a paleo population that migrated out of Africa? You’re as related to me as the Filipino next door and the random black fellow walking down the street is to me (and to you, idiot). Focusing on only one aspect pretty much discloses much of your cultural favoritism (which conveniently aggrandizes your supremacist and nationalistic views). Arabs preserved what the Greeks studied in terms of medicine. The Chinese are credited with what you’re taking credit for (compass, paper, printing, silk, gunpowder, etc). lol What a faggot. Yet you turks hate the Sinos.

    In essence, your nationalistic tendencies are ludicrously tragic. Trace your mtDNA back to Mitochondrial Eve and where does that land you: Africa. We’re all Africans and therefore turks do not exist. Africans founded your civilization and brought it out to the rest of the world as they migrated throughout the Old World. lol You can’t take credit for something your African ancestors produced. If you’re not of African descent then you’re not a human being which explains the extent of your lunacy. Go ahead, keep on denying what the general consensus on human origin postulates: that Africa is the cradle of humanity. Funny how you conveniently forget this little fact and instead focus on turanian ideology (like turks appeared out of nowhere). The turks who “ignore” supremacist tendencies like yours (already made clear by the insane comments of founding civilizations and being near god-like people) are much less touched in the head (that is to say, they’re quite sane).

    Comment by Lurtz — July 21, 2011 @ 8:59 pm

  43. the topic is indians and turks.it is not the africans and turks.:)u are raving the same words like a parrot.
    u claim the links are dead.people will see they work…and u r a terrible liar.cant u type them on the google?:))u r an obstinate loser who gets to be whack maniac.the more u get beaten,the crazier u go.u have no word to put across the vocabulary common,the languages common,the dna common,and u always talk about africans.:))i am sure who read these discussions will easily see how superficial and shallow your arguments are as seen above.turks appeared out of nowhere is your sentence.i did not say that.we are talking about indians and turks here,not the start of mankind,u idiot faggot:)u have no proof to put across the evidence laid here.therefore,like a parrot,u talk over and over on the africans:))i will disregard u from now on as u alway fall irrelevant.u r shallow and superficial,obviously have nothing to say other than barking your anger out at scientific findings.turanism does not say turks are the start of mankind.at least not most turanists think that way.panturkism and turanism is an ideology set up by a tatar man of thought.ismail gaspıralı,yusuf akcura,zeki velidi togan are the main founders of turanism.they never said that the first men came as a turk…there is a lot more u should learn but i will not
    digress.
    the conclusion is,turks are your ancestors and if u have a problem with that u go on telling about africa:))lol.i have cited many evidence so far that u deny as u have no perception.or should we call it”ma,it hurts me so much,we did not come from asia”cryingly and whiningly while u pull your mums hand:))
    i will not even read your parrot-like letters,as of now.i believe that those who will read my letters here will have learnt a lot about the similarities and kinship between the natives and turks.u cannot defend your ideas here.u r irrelevant to the topic and u have not a word to make people learn new things.
    be happy…u will get used to being our grandchildren:))lol…the sentence u said++”turks suddenly came out of nowhere….”makes me laugh.u invent something from your mind and say it as if i had said it.africans and turks is not the topic here.u r the idiot that does not even understand the subject here.nobody talks about the africans here.:)
    everybody can see that u r the idiot here.loser…..i talk about the inka and the turkic legend kapaktakon and ergenekon and u tell me about africans again:))what sort of a idiot are u?lol…go write at a website where the africans and turks are debated.lurtz,go and have another shower after the legend similarities.u look more shocked each time:)i will not read your worthless comments and your irrelevant schizophrenic ramblings.waste of time…i will write about the topic giving serious info about the topic.

    Comment by goyathlay — July 21, 2011 @ 11:22 pm

  44. interested people may write and search on the google by those entry sentences…
    (1) teori kanıtlandı-hurriyet online
    (2) study supports bering strait migration,siberian origin to the native americans
    (3) mt DNA variation of aboriginal siberians reveals distinct genetic affinities with native americans
    (4) first americans all from siberia,study confirms
    (5) central siberian origin for the american Y chromosomes
    (6) http://www.tallarmeniantale.com/indian.htm
    (7) http://www.tallarmeniantale.com/index.htm
    (8) J.T.LELL native americans siberian affinities-turkicworld
    (9) native americans targeted for turkish alliance-historical melungeons
    (10) amerikan kızılderili şamanizmi ile orta asya-sibirya turk şamanizm’inin benzerlikleri üzerine bir çalışma
    ahmet ali arslan
    later,i will add more information here.
    there is the music and some other points to mention…for people who do not know turkish,translation may be possible….
    i know that all humans are related.we turks,as stated in the islamic teachings and hadith,are the japhetic peoples.namely,noah had a son called japeth.if i am not mistaken,he had gone eastwards as commanded by his father and the roots of the eastern populations depend upon him.sam and ham are not within our concern here….but religious teachings are not to be discussed here.

    Comment by goyathlay — July 22, 2011 @ 3:13 am

  45. Way to misinterpret scientific findings. Where exactly do any of these studies clearly state that the proto paleo population called themselves “Turk”, “turkic” or otherwise? Citing one set of studies while overlooking (nay, completely bypassing) the origins of human kind and the interrelation between all human populations shows your ethnocentric and/or political agenda. Didn’t know that Africans have shamanism, did ya? They still do to this day. Shamanism didn’t originate with the turks (the popular usage of the word is another story). The lynchpin of your arguments is that the Central Eurasian ancestor of many human groups in the surrounding area was a turk. Not one paper describes such an identity. Notice the usage of the word Central Asian (or Eurasian in some rare cases). Ancient Central Eurasian populations founded many other groups that inhabit places like the Indus valley and even Europe. That population itself was derived from another ancestral population that began in East Africa (M168 aka Eurasian Adam) all mutations derive from that. Yet this is a link that you conveniently overlook. Haplogroup K* (M9), itself mutated from K, spawned mutations that resulted in N and O which is commonly found in central asian people (these two haplogroups being descendant mutations of K). The last two are subclades of K. The pure K Haplogroup is still found among Polynesian, Melanesian, Filipino and other SE Asian groups. These people exhibit K* at greater frequencies (reminding you that NO, found in Central Asian populations, are subclades of K*). K or K* started approximately 40,000 years ago (millennia before NO (your YDNA haplogroup)). So are the SE Asian people your grandfathers because they exhibit an early haplogroup that preceded your own? Do tell. The Natl Genographic Project says it all. No doubt you’re related to me. But then so is every person out there in varying degrees. You’re misusing genetic findings to support a cultural-socio-political agenda. Articles like the one on this page (as well as thee) pick and choose genetic research without looking at the bigger scope of human interelatedness.

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/02/080221-human-genetics.html

    Looking at your finger without noticing the rest of your body.

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/02/080214-america-layover.html

    If you think you’re not related to an ancestral African population that mutated and migrated to what is now Central Asia over a span of thousands of years, then what does the article above say?

    “Over time descendants developed a unique culture—one that was different from the original migrants’ way of life in Asia but which contained seeds of the new cultures that would eventually appear throughout the Americas.”

    AKA the founding population genetically mutated into different haplogroups (which is why some American haplogroups have different mutations than north and east Eurasians). That ancestral population also genetically mutated into what is the modern-day turkic people. There were no turkics eons ago. A proto population that was as different as the descending groups, yeah. You’re proposing some unbroken pure line. lol. Quit picking and choosing and embrace your African brother (or should I say great-grandfather). I dare anyone else select your selective articles and ignore the ones I’ve put up. If they want to follow the Eurasian migration into the Americas but conveniently ignore the African migration into Eurasia then I know this is most definitely a turanist site (not that I didn’t before but it solidifies the conviction much better).

    Comment by Lurtz — July 24, 2011 @ 12:37 am

  46. Oh yeah, that Beringia landbridge… it doesn’t exist anymore as it is now submerged under the Bering Sea. It belongs to neither continent now. That pretty much makes us our own people. God damn, we’re awesome.

    Comment by Lurtz — July 24, 2011 @ 12:39 am

  47. it ürür,kervan yürür.bazen kızılderiliymiş gibi,bazen çinli gibi havlar durur,burada…aslında ikisi de değildir.
    ne olduğu ise çok bellidir.yazılarını okumadığımı söylediğim halde yazar durur.insanlık bir ortadoğudan yayıldı dünyaya der,bir afrikadan….neden acaba ortadoğudan demiştir….aslında türkçe de bilmektedir,soysuz.

    Comment by goyathlay — July 24, 2011 @ 3:53 am

  48. Slapped right back into Turkish. Don’t worry, Goya Bean. You’d get along well with the load of Sinocentrics (those are the Chinese supremacists) who also make claims about American Indians. Along with white folks who still follow the debunked Solutrean theory (using Kennewick Man, Buhl Woman, etc as crutches for their whacked out theories) and Afrocentrics (using Luzia for the same reasons), you’re one of many in a long line of politically and culturally motivated groups who claim American Indians as your playthings (pawns, I should say). You’re not unique and you’re not special. When you’ve come and gone, another group with like-minded invididuals will show up and do the same thing; it might be the Irish next time and hey, they might use the common use of the potato to link Quechuan people with them (shit, we sure do love our taters). Aw hell, it seems some pro-Celtic groups are doing that right now (what with the Mandan/Welsh connection that’s promoted out there). That’s the funny thing about laypeople’s use of science: It’s toyed around with to tout cultural/racial/ethnic superiority and lord it over other groups. Curious thing that some turks protest the Han Chinese claiming their cultural heritage even though their is some genetic interrelation between the two groups. The Han Chinese arrogance in such matters is nasty, right? Lacks humility, doesn’t it? Now take a look in the mirror.

    Comment by Lurtz — July 24, 2011 @ 5:19 am

  49. somebody knows a lot about turanism,a lot about the turkish history and the turks being”aggressors”,a lot about the uyghurs being genocided,and the mirrors.despite the language and the genetic and cultural similarities,that somebody continues to deny and obviously being a”supreme expert” on the cited matters,finds all the evidences as a ”shit” and goes on with telling about africans although the subject here does not comprise of the africans…
    the ket people in siberia are found to be genetically related to the irish people in some respects and he starts blaming the irish people in return.the chinese,obviously being related to turks has two dimensions to notice.1)in ebu’l ghazi bahadır khan’s secere-i türki,which is a historical book,talks about the ancestors of turks giving japeth as the ancestor.according to the information he based on hadith and islamic sources,he states that the japeth in koran and hadith is the person turks and mongolians used to call olcay khan.some other source writings say olcay khan was the son of japeth.in one hatdith,the prophet says,turks,mongolians and yagog magog are the sons of japeth.accvording to many islamic historians,japeth had many suns.one of his son’s names is turk.he had brothers called kin(the ancestor of the chinese)oghuz khan was a later figure,probably,as far as i remember,from a lter generation.so,the genetic studies confirm most genetic discoveries.2)chenghiz khan had many turkic elements in his army.as the empire grew,the proportion of turks to mongolians was 20/1…when he invaded china,he ordered all his soldiers to rape the chinese women.the han chinese people have mongolian and turkic blood in them,needless to say.whatever the outcomes are,now we are not the same nation with the chinese.it is obvious that oghuz khan was not mao tun,or mete khan as we term it.oghuz khan is assumed to have lived during the time of the prophet called abraham.turk,the son of japeth,being of a very preceding generation must have lived much before abraham.so,that makes turks a much older nation.besides,turks always used different names,not national name turk,like the huns,the seljuks,the ottomans,and a lot more,except for the kok turks…even today,thanks to the old soviet propoganda,still some turkic peoples do not accept themselves as turks but address themselves as uzbeks for example,the empire of whom in the past was set up by a leader called uzbek khan.they are in fact of the uyghur descent and it is a proven fact.
    u want to discuss with me mr.lurtz…but u always pull the subject outwards and digress.obviously,u bring out that there is some kind of hatred against turks in your letters.i do not believe that u r a native american.u were firstly tian li here,pretendingly to be of i guess chinese.then u state the civilizations started from middle east,which makes me think u r of middle east origins,most probably a hater of typical kurd.otherwise,i do not think that u would even bother to learn a lot about turks or the grey wolves,or turanism.perhaps u r a mixture of armenian or a kurd who tries to degrade my posts here.u do not want me to talk and whatever i say,u mock and that is all very clear that u have a thing,perhaps a bad experience with turks.the flying naive dog also sees that u digress and want me to shut up.although i tell u i would not read your letters u come up again and badger by writing your barks at me again.u have nothing to say apart from denials or mockings or pulling the level downwards by your indecent manner of wrfiting.u talk about africans…according to islamic writings,ham ,is the ancestor the black people in africa,who was also the brother of japeth.so,they are not the ancestors of turks according to the teachings of hadith and islamic views.the genetic affinities of theirs to turks may be due to mixing up as turks mixed with african elements too during the memluk empire and later the ottoman empire,the latter of which survived many centures also in africa.some ottomans went inwards in the continent to make the black people muslims by teachings.
    genetic and linguistic and morphologic affinities between the natives and turks cannot be underestimated as after the migrations the connections were cut off.i saw a rocky place in mexico named chatalthkaya,which means chatal kaya in turkish,(fork rock)in the national geographic.there are many turkish names still existing everywhere in the americas.huan tepec,is one only another example.the hill of the khan(han tepesi in turkish)they are not mere coincidences.there is not only one or two words that are the same.no connection with asia…so,that makes your efforts to prove that there was no lineage looks more ridiculous and absurd.instead of denying and looking more lost in the discussion by digressing all the time,just stick to the topic and so u will not have fallen irrelevant.your language has always been very full of curses and provocative and i do not like discussiing like that.u ignore languages,u ignore the scientific dna research results and u talk on about africans.we embrace all people regardless of color unless they are hostile.the native americans being our grandsons will not earn us anything.it does not glorify us in any way.u misjudge my writings.u obviously are biased about many stuff,as seen in your comments against turks.i will not condescend to take u seriously anymore.i WILL NOT READ YOUR COMMENTS ANYMORE AS U CANOOT STİCK TO THE TOPİC.BESİDES,U R RUDE AND U HAVE SOME SORT OF PAİN DOWN THERE İN U THAT VOMİTS ANGER ALL THE TİME.GOOD BYE LURTZ,OR TİAN Lİ,OR A KURD THAT PRETENDS TO BE NATİVE…

    Comment by goyathlay — July 24, 2011 @ 5:36 pm

  50. according to some old books and seceri turki,olcay khan was yafes(japeth)and one of his sons’ name was turk.according to kasgarlı mahmut,the word meant strong.in the latter generations comes oghuz khan from whom the oghuz and the mongolians descended.there are many details given in that book.so,oghuz khan,some old historians used to say,was a man who lived 3000 years b.c and was a contemporary of abraham who had sons that were the fathers of the arabic and jews.so,turks can be defined as an older nation than the jews.mete khan was a figure appearing as the hun khanaround 250-300 b.c….the name turk precedes oghuz khan.from turk some of his brothers,came down the turkic nations,according to ebul ghazi bahadır khan’s book.npbody knows for sure exactly when noah lived.but according to the old testament and some islamic references,he lived up to 1000 years.the eastern nations have one ancestor called japeth.sam,another som of noah’s was the father of the white race that icludes greeks etc…and ham,the other son is the father of african black people.so,according to the religious teachings found in christianity,judaism and islam,noah is the second father of humanity after adam.in turkiye,it is possible to find people who had their genetic formation analyzed,having connection with the far eastern peoples,as well as people who have affinity to greeks,armenians,and arabs and jews or kurds who have no japethic relation according to islamic teachings.the reason for that may be due to the fact that those races blended with the ottomans to some extent.or some changed their religions and became muslims and later mixed with the eastern turkic peoples.yet,those who are turks in turkiye still have their middle asian,siberian,or even american relations in their genes.a man in istanbul,if i am not mistaken,was found to be related to the native americans.i think he is a doctor.the news appeared on the newspaper.despite the blending and this and that,there is still a reality that stands.turks in turkiye have lineage to asia and siberia.in the past,turks considered all people who could speak their language not different from them,as there was no nationalism.turks built great empires in whole asia,even in europe,africa,middle east….so,there was always a relation among the nations.the genetic analysis that may combine us to some middle easterners or people from the mediterranean may be explained that way.
    that all by way of digress is enough to mention here.the topic lies as turks and natives….the dna search results,the linguistic and word affinities,the affinities of culture such as the patterns on the rugs,the legend and myth resemblances cannot be mere coincidence.chinese may also be related to some natives.one tribe called otomi in the americas have a single syllable structure of language.but the vaster and more comprehensive and more coherent and consistent lineage that natives had is with turks.chinese people were not nomads like turks.turks were nomadic and were hunter gatherers and unlike the chinese they were living in not southern parts of asia.the writing was introduced by the uyghurs too the chinese.the chinese saw some type of paper from the uyghurs.who taught civilization to the chinese is mainly the uyghurs,as stated by some historians who are of no turkic descent.not my views.they learnt even how to ride a horse by turks.
    there is nothing that will glorify us about the natives.turks were a higher civilization than natives.but,to prove by evidence that they were related to us is good.natives should be proud of belonging to the turkic past and affinities.they always won over whom the genocider nations that defeated the amerindians.their cousins defeated them many times.their cousins even shattered the east and the western roman empires.turks are seen as the most important threat by the so called europe.
    if u r a kurdish man,those facts should be bothering u as u think turks came and took your lands from them.no…turks came and defeated the eastern rome and so could the kurds settle in anatolia thanks to us.kurds are cited as nomadic persian peoples who used to live in iran in the past.even if that be the case(turks coming and taking the kurds’lands),it is us who own and got the lands after wars with the byzantines who wanted to send us back to middle asia.everybody came from some place.before the byzantines different peoples used to live here.what is most important is being the winner,not loser,for what counts is the words of the winner as it is clearly seen in the usa incident in middle east.
    so,all the topic lies in different dimensions thanks to the irrelevant talks made by mr.lurtz…
    the common words and even the suffixes being almost the same s anEVİDENCE not to be disregarded.mayaca=turkish,mayanca=mayan…..english=the mayan language.even the -ca suffrix to form a word stands no doubt….it is clear that turks and native americans are just like cousins…or brothers.the inka king has a name atha hualpa which is very similar to the turkic word ata alp…if more studies upon languages were made,more affinities would doubtlessly arise…being a turk or a native american or chinese or kurdish does not make one superior.i never said we are superior.how much a man u r is what counts.there are bad and good ones.we are not talking about supremacists or racism here.we are talking about the genetic affinities regarding turks and american natives….(not africans)
    it i,s normal that some nations may be poor or rich,backward or vice versa.some nations may be better than others in some respects like financial power,science or war.my argument does not involve that.
    turks being related to natives or natives being turks does not matter as to whom is superior or inferior.w2hat matters here is the relation.it will not gain any side supremacy over the other if they were natives or not.celtic peoples may be or not turkic.what changes?africans are the ancestors or not does not matter…what matters is whether turks are akin to natives or not here according to the topic of the site.i gladly witness many native americans who used to laugh at the theory are now beginning to take the matter seriously.some cherokee people have accepted the kinship.some apache,navajo,too.and that is not a fact liked by some white americans and the brits.we know that.
    so,rob,tian li,or perhaps a kurd guy,u should stop being full of hatred to turks.we did not bomb japan by atom bombs.we did not exploit pakistan,india,africa,middle east.we did not kill many people in ıraq.
    u had better look in the mirrorso as to see who provoked the nations against us by constantly calling turks barbarians.we did not start the world war1 and 2.we did not genocide anybody.we did not slander at other nations after all those things.we did not invent islamic terrorism.we did not invent taliban in afghanistan.they were set up by the usa against the russians in the past.we did not bring saddam into power first and then subvert him.i guess u should look in a matter from various angles to be able to get a full grasp of the truth and perfect sight of the picture.
    u may not accept the proven relation between the natives and turks but there are many who endorse the fact.we are not to embrace anyone who has hostility to us.we are not to patronize or swagger at anyone.there is no boasting here.that ends my talk here.i have done a good thing to make u also know how i think and that is all how science tells.i do not deny that all humans are related.supremacy is in the heart not in the race all the time.do not fill your heart with hatred at us or any other nations.it is not healthy to lead qa life based on hatred.if u r native really,then be proud that even the celts and many other nations feel kinship to u.there is no need for hatred.i do not hate white men.i hate only bad people.and i keep away from corrupted people regardless of their nationalities.i guess u have understood now that i am not a man who deserves your lols or mockings.i will no longer talk to u.bye forever lurtz…

    Comment by goyathlay — July 24, 2011 @ 9:17 pm

  51. “In the book, Navajo Weaving, Three Centuries of Change, by Kate Peck Kent, there is a section referencing Navajo weaving influenced by oriental rugs, ‘J.B. Moore, who owned the trading post at Crystal from 1897 to 1911…turned …to rugs from Turkey and Iran, which were enjoying popularity among urban Americans at the time. Known today as Early Crystals…An informative article by Katina Simmons (1977) discusses and illustrates design similarities between Crystals and oriental rugs…they did not make exact copies of oriental rugs but simplified patterns, reproducing essential forms but deleting fine details and placing design elements in new configurations…’ She goes on to reference a “Bergamo” brought to colorado Springs in 1873. The book, Walk In Beauty, The Navajo and Their Blankets, by Berlant and Kahlenberg, briefly discusses the connection, noting the introduction of borders as a framing device, “… an effect derived from the oriental rugs to which the eastern clientele was accustomed.”
    The Navajo did not fashion rugs but blankets. Then the market for Native rugs was in full swing. This prompted the Navajo to adopt the kilim designs to appease the taste of prospective buyers in the mid to late 1800s. Navajo textile went through various transitions with designs changing as newer influences (the oriental turkish design for instance) were implemented. That explains the similiarity in Navajo “rugs” and kilim. They weren’t even made of wool until the Spanish brought domesticated sheep to the New World. lol
    There are loads of Mayan languages within the Mayan language group. In K’iche’, qatzijob’al means language. I don’t see no “mayanca”. lol

    “i never said we are superior”
    “turks were a higher civilization than natives”
    Your own words, bucko.

    “we are not to patronize or swagger at anyone.there is no boasting here”
    Insert here your claims of turks bringing about civilization for the rest of the inferior non-turkish world who probably couldn’t rub two sticks together to make a fire, right? How about this doozie?

    Insert comments about being our “grandfathers” despite the fact that the proto-population is long gone having produced two separate populations in its place. Wasn’t it the Great White Father (and many Euro-Americans) back in Washington D.C. who viewed us Indian folks as children who apparently need guidance because we were too ignorant to do things on our own despite having a good 18,000+ years running things just fine without help? Yeah, your paternalistic attitude reflects the GWFs perspective quite nicely. In fact, your false facade of sympathy for Indians is quite flimsy after reading your comments reflecting your superiority complex.

    You blab about connections yet fail and oft-refuse to see your connection to other human groups (note the haplogroups I listed above and the Central Eurasian haplogroups that descended from the earlier Afro-Asiatic one). The studies confirm genetic relations (and what human group isn’t related to another anyway?) but they don’t ascribe any “turkic/turkish” identity to the proto-population that gave rise to both groups (you do know that modern-day Europeans also descend from an earlier proto-population?). That’s right, you’re linked to the Euros you so denigrate in your posts. lol You claim I offend turks when the only offense is towards your ethnocentric, pro-turkish propaganda. If I had anything against turks I wouldn’t have mentioned the turks who posted on the steppes message board who don’t buy into the shite you spout. They recognize the links between American Indians and themselves but don’t fail to recognize the links between themselves and other human groups. Nor is the issue raised as something that is of the utmost importance when human genetic relations pretty much link all of us (<— read this sentence and then claim that I'm denying linkages at all) . I would've called them crazy, nutjobs or worse. But nope, I didn't. It's only shitheads like you that are the recipients of such epithets.

    The origins of Chinese writing belong to the Uighurs? Article please. Otherwise, it's one of many pseudo-theories (usually proposed by pro-turkish "authorities). It has to be peer reviewed, too. In case your deluded head didn't know, all humans were hunter-gatherers. Agriculture took precedence over some groups more than others. The ancestors of the Han Chinese were foraging and hunting just like everybody else at that time. They weren't called Han Chinese either as no such identity existed back then.

    I also see that you've gone into a little diatribe playing the victim by going over historic grievances with other nations. Never mind that turks migrated westward settling into what is not present-day Anatolia and wresting control from its indigenous population. Makes you more like white Europeans than American Indians, now dunnit? I'm as Indian as I'll ever be. Something you wish you were. I don't know who the hell tian li is and I pretty much don't care. Sounds Chinese and I know I'm not a Sino. I'm not Rob although I do enjoy reading his blog and visiting his BC Comics site.

    Comment by Lurtz — July 25, 2011 @ 12:14 am

  52. 1)60 millions of people were killed during the rule of stalin and lenin,out of 45 million of whom were found to be turkic peoples.
    2)the uygur state was a free state but during the 2nd world war,the chinese annexed the uyghur country claiming that the region was historically chinese territory.the uyghur peoples were constanly killed,were forbidden to pray in the mosques together except for the retired old ones.they are being forced to assimilation as in the schools speaking uyghur turkish is forbidden.once during the 1960s,the uyghur population was estimated to be around 60 millions.now they are only about 12 millions.
    3)no manchu can speak their language now.although they survive in the manchurian region of china,they are totally assimilated and only a few manchurians can speak the language.in about ten years or so,it is stated that there will be no manchurian language left.
    4)the uyghur men are given money by the government if they marry a chinese lady.some uyghur girls are forced to leave their families to work elsewjere in china.most are forced to work as prostitutes.
    5)it is estimated that 70 million native americans were killed until the 20th century from the beginning of the discovery of the continent.some native nations do not exist.and the surviving ones mostly cannot speak their languages.they were made to forget.
    6)africa has become a playground of killing between the africans thanks to western policies.many people kill each other.some are backed up by france and others by other white western countries.
    7)many hundreds of thousands of people were killed after two atom bombings in japan.
    8)more bombing was made upon ırag by coalition forces than the bombing made totlayy during the second world war.more than 1 million people died.
    9)in bosnia,the whole world watched how serbians butched,raped,and tortured bosnians,whom the serbians called turks.
    10)about 2 million muslims most of whom were kurds were killed by armenians who were armed by russians and backed up by the western world between the years 1915-18,in order th shatter the dying ottoman empire.now they cliam turks genocided them.
    11)in the balkan wars during the ottoman last periods in the balkans,more than million turks were killed by bulgarians,the serbians etc,who were backed up and armed by the panslavist russia.many millions of people could hardly escape the massacres.those who escaped migrated back to anatolia.
    12)during 1980s,jirikof,if i am not mistaken forced turks to get bulgarian names.those who resisted 800 000 people were ousted to turkiye.i still can remember those days.
    13)the cyprus greeks started to genocide the turks to make ethnic cleansing and they lost the war against us in 3 days.many turks were killed.
    14)during the greek invasion in the ottoman lands from 1920 to 23,many people were killed.in aydın city at one night 5000 turks were slaughtered,all civillians.they killed as many as possible along with rapings and at some places the greek soldiers are reported to get the unborn babies out of women by using their bayonets,just like what was done in the east by armenians and just like what was done to many native americans by some white people.
    15)kurdish people try to attack the civillian turks and police by using fire.they even burnt and killed a passanger young turkish girl on a bus while setting the bus on fire.the kurdish pkk goes on killing kurds who do not comply with them,turkish security forces,and military forces and the civilians in big cities sby bombings since 1980s…they say they want freedom and they earn the money for arms by drug-trades.they poison the whole europe and turkiye by the drugs they sell.it is known a fact that china,and many developed countries support the pkk although they claim they do not.
    16)after the african lands were annexed by the europeans(the french,the italians)speaking turkish was made forbidden in north africa.all those who have turkic ancestry were killed and nobody knows how many millions were killed.exactly.
    17)the arabs were made to uprise against the ottomans and the arabs killed almost all the turks who fought the british meanwhile,and one of them was my grandfather’s brother.not even where his grave is known.
    18)karay turks in eastern europe were killed by the nazi as they were all jewish.the number of the killed is not certain.today only 5000 karay survive in the world.
    19)how many people died in gallipoli?all turks and the number is estimated to be around 250 000.
    so,when we look in the mirror we see lots of blood of people.
    20)armenian asala started killing turkish diplomats.they killed our diplomats and that wasbacked up by the us,europe.they killed as many as 50 if i am not mistaken.
    21)we see northern ıraq kurds killing,bombing turkmens in north ıraq with the help they get from their fathers.
    22)hundred thousands of people of turkish origins were killed by the greeks in mora,crete and greece.even today,turks living there have no rights to use the name turk.
    however in turkiye,kurds were able to become ministers,prime ministers and even president of republic.they are high ranking soldiers and also can work everywhere with any title on them.while the uyghurs are getting less each day due to chinese policies,in turkiye,the kurds are getting crowded and crowded.most kurds have at least 8 children.some have 37 children.and whatsmore,the government pays money to them for each child they make regularly every month.(note that kurds could enter anatolia with us-unlike the uyghurs who used to have their own states)
    i wonder what would have happened to them if they uprose so violently in the usa as the usa citizens or elsewhere in europe.)i guess the white men would easily strangle them all as they did to natives.
    so,while looking in the mirror i see loads of turks either having been or being killed constantly.even at hocalı we see how armenians kill azeri turks regardless of women,children and old,just as they used to do in 1915s.the whole world watched it too.hodjalı genocide,for those curious….
    we survived…we won the war against us.we died in millions but we made it.we won…but those dead are forgotten in the dusty pages of history.when we defended ourselves,it was claimed that we did not have the right to:))even these days many of our soldiers are killed by the terrorist toys of the superpowers.there are not only uyghurs in china.many more turkic subgroups are on the brink of extinction like the salur oghuz,the kazaks,the kıghız,etc.we know very well about the han chinese justice and racism.even the other chinese are not counted as chinese if the are not han.
    some people here may vomit their illwilled attitudes against the turks.they may say they are natives.but the fact is that they may be kurds or armenians or greeks talking veiled by the net.
    none of those above did i make up.turks never genocided after they conquered places.if we had been genociders as the huns in europe or the ottomans or the memluks or the sejuks or the huns in east asia,there would be no russians,no chinese,no europeans no kurds,no armenians,no serbians,no bulgarians,no greeks,no indians of inda,etc survive now.there are some exceptions to what is listed above though.the shiite azeri turks entered iran and genocided the sunnis in history.and even at those times yavuz selim khan saved the sunni kurds from that slaughter by getting them in the ottoman territories.apart from that no massive killings were perpetrated except for during the wars on the battlefields.some people should not compare our history to the nazi history or the what happened after the discovery of america history…we are used to slanders,tarnishings made against us.some nations who were under the rule of the ottomans used to hate turks but it is changing now.the official history told to them works no more.
    native americans and turks also have one more thing in common.they were both subject to massive killings accompanied by many tortures,both were adressed to as savages,barbarians,and ferocious.
    and despite what was done to them,they both survive…the difference lies here.there are now many turkic republics.but natives have no republics.but,i am of the opinion that the uygurs will some day get their independence,or they will perish..
    that is all for now…

    Comment by goyathlay — July 25, 2011 @ 1:10 am

  53. i am not reading your articles.i do not care….if u want u can read mine.u look very ugly with your offensive language and i do not read them.

    Comment by goyathlay — July 25, 2011 @ 1:15 am

  54. u r a liar as well.an ignorant illiterate liar.bark as much as u want.i do not read.it ürür kervan yürür:)

    Comment by goyathlay — July 25, 2011 @ 1:36 am

  55. Genocide does not mean the total extermination of a people to extinction but the loss of life of a great portion of that population. Face it, you guys were the aggressors on Cyprus. 20,000 Nicosians put to death for resisting Ottoman rule. Who exactly were you guys again to knock on someone else’s door uninvited? Kurds are indigenous to their present-day location (meaning they migrated there at an earlier time than the turks who swept across Eurasia from central eurasia much much MUCH later). Same with the Armenians. Wasn’t it the mongols (another of central asian people) that swept across and laid waste to people (often times innocents)? The Sack of Baghdad ring a bell? turks harassing the Han Chinese from an early point (ironic that now the tables have turned and the Han have you guys by the balls). Face it. You were the aggressors going places where you weren’t invited while we were on the defensive with a large influx of people moving in. Our isolation in the New World pretty much places us in a unique position: being actual defenders of Indian lands and not aggressive imperialists or colonists. Ya know…. I don’t even think you’re one of those evenk, oghuz or whatever kind of turk you claim to be. I’d wager that you’re one of those Arab looking turks who’s ashamed of his own history and wants nothing more than to legitimize his victim status by latching on to actual indigenous people of those parts of Eurasia who did face colonial/imperial oppression. Much like white folks want to assuage their guilt by claiming Indian ancestry. What a gas.

    Comment by Lurtz — July 25, 2011 @ 2:03 am

  56. If I were illiterate I couldn’t read a damn word. Learn the definition behind a word before using it, asshat. You’ve got serious comprehension problems though and a superiority complex to match.

    Comment by Lurtz — July 25, 2011 @ 2:05 am

  57. k’iche': achalal, ätz axel, ätz ixel turkish: ağa english: older brother. lol nope. ätz can be found in German. So I’m German now?

    k’iche': chaq’ab turkish: akşam english: night

    k’iche': ikaj turkish: balta english: axe (also stone axe)

    k’iche': 1) jech’o, 2) jech’ba turkish: buk(mek) english: 1) to bend, 2) to twist; bend

    k’iche': pa’chäj, pachäj turkish: çam(cham)

    k’iche': jech’aqan turkish: cholak(çolak) english: crippled

    k’iche': aninäq turkish: hemen english: immediately, on time

    k’iche': awaj aj uwo kaj, chikop turkish: kush english: bird Oh really?

    k’iche': ch-pam, köq turkish: ichinde(içinde) english: inside, in

    k’iche': ixtu’x turkish: dishi english: female

    k’iche': ximibal pam turkish: kushak(kuşak) english: belt, sash

    k’iche': q’ij turkish: 1) gün 2) kunesh, günesh english: day, 2) sun

    k’iche': 1) winaq, 2) achi turkish: kishi english: 1) person, people, 2) man

    k’iche': 1) ri’j, 2) qas nim, 3) achajilom turkish: kocha koca english: 1) old, 2) large, 3) husband

    k’iche': 1) alk’ual ja, 2) alom turkish: kul english: 1) slave, 2) servant

    k’iche': chuch, nanaxel, tu’janel turkish: ana english: mother

    k’iche': 1) k’ulmatäjik, 2) k’oli’k turkish: ol(mak) english: 1) to happen, 2) to exist, to be

    k’iche': nak’bal turkish: tutkal english: glue, tape, stickum

    k’iche': 1) poj, 2) tzuntzuy turkish: tepe english: 1) hill, 2) hill, point of tree *chapultepec is nahuatl not mayan

    k’iche': kuchu turkish: top(lamak) english: to gather together, to collect

    k’iche': poq turkish: toz english: dust lol simple enough

    k’iche': 1)achoch, ochoch, 2) kabal 3) ja turkish: otag english: 1)home, 2)hut, 3) house, building

    k’iche': nojinaq turkish: tolu, dolu english: filled, full

    k’iche': k’u’xaj turkish: dip english: bottom

    k’iche': 1) wabäj, 2) binel ja’, 3) nim ja’ turkish: chakıl english: 1) pebble, 2) rivulet, stream, river 3) river

    k’iche': xa manal turkish: uyuz english: dirty, impure

    k’iche': chulunik turkish: ishe(mek) english: to urinate, to defecate

    k’iche': opanik turkish: ulash(mak) english: to arrive

    k’iche': 1) jororik, 2) räx turkish: yash english: 1) fresh, 2) uncooked (raw), humid, green

    So many hits and misses. Dream again, jabroni.

    Comment by Lurtz — July 25, 2011 @ 3:58 am

  58. it ürür kervan yürür…

    Comment by goyathlay — July 25, 2011 @ 12:27 pm

  59. tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/keçuva_dili
    so we see here that it looks like the finnish and turkish….lurtz is an impostor pretending to be native but he is not.he is just a liar who denies the fact that there are navajo kilims the many samples of which can be found on the internet.he backs up his assertions with lots of bad words,obviously showing that he cannot bear with the truth revealed.he is going to end up in the sanitarium soon because of his anger and he loses temper all the time as he is a racist who hates turks.replete with lies…. and it is his obstinacy in being blind and anger that makes him utterly illiterate.he cannot read or write(what i mean is clear by way of my metaphores)
    İT ULUDU,KERVAN YÜRÜDÜ….WE TURKS ARE HATED BECAUSE WE ARE THE WİNNERS.NO MATTER WHAT THE LOSERS DİD WE ALWAYS WON.
    OBVPOUSLY LURTZ İS A MAN WHO HATES ARABS,TURKS AND MUSLİMS İN GENERAL.HE İS NOT NATİVE…
    he is disturbed by my comments because he knows all are true.

    Comment by goyathlay — July 25, 2011 @ 12:55 pm

  60. LOL Now you’re barking mad.

    Quechua: punchaw, p’unchay turkish: gün english: day Oooooooookay.

    I already provided a source for the reasons behind the Navajo “kilims”. Designs adopted for the American market back in the 1800s. Yup, you’re a turanian nutjob. Playing the “racism” card “look up the definition of racism first), the “You’re not Native” claim and rants about turkish history with respect to other societies (spotting a bit of paranoia there). All hallmarks of a pro-turanist nationalist. I’ve been to Turania.net before the change. I’ve seen the wackos on Youtube and on other websites. You’re all the same. I’ll be glad to tell my parents I’m “pretending” to be Indian. They’ll probably wonder and joke if I’m pretending to be their son, too. Lulz.

    Comment by Lurtz — July 25, 2011 @ 2:10 pm

  61. it ürür,kervan yürür…sen bu cümleyi anlıyorsun…hala yazıyorsun.sen busun.turkcesi de aynı.zoruna gidiyor degil mi türklerin uyanışı?zoruna gidiyor kızılderililerin bizden olduklarını anlamaları.
    it ürür,kervan yürür…(proverb)
    it,sen durma, ürümeni sürdür…
    bak, kıçın hınçtan yanıyor söndür…:))
    that verse above is a small poem by me with syllable discipline(10 luk hece olcusu)
    ”the grey wolves are everywhere” as u had and tian li(!) had recited,alike:))sometimes,pretending to be chinese,(rob)the white american whose ancestors were native american killers,sometimes talking like a weirdo kurdo…
    it ürür kervan yürür, türk düşmanı…

    Comment by goyathlay — July 25, 2011 @ 5:36 pm

  62. Vartan M
    amikonian from california:)pretending to be chinese,with some lmao’s pretending to be lurtz(quite as ugly as him),reading rob’s website,frequently cursing at turks on the youtube comments…looks like u have twins:))writes with lots of abusive language whenever he sees some stuff about us and american natives.”look yourself in the mirror”gives a lot about the sick and turko-obsessed state of mind he has.u must be vartan,not lurtz,orrr both,as ugly as each other:)u had betrayed the byzantine empire during the malazgirt war in 1071 by suddenly changing your side in favor of turks.how treacherous:)and starting by the end of the 19th century and beginning of 20th century u had started killing turks and arabs and kurds getting help from the french,russians and some european countries.(shamelessly,u pretend to be a native american here.)
    100 000 armenians were killed at war,the armenians were in the russian army wearing russian military uniforms.u betrayed turks till 1915….which brought about your exodus.on the way to syria,kurds whose families your nation butched got back at u.that is what u call genocide.hypocrite!your unveiled face must be an ass with a womanly giggling right now.
    it ürür,kervan yürür..(.although the dog barks,the caravan moves on:)
    it,durma,sen ürümeni sürdür,
    bak,kıçın hınçtan yanıyor söndür…
    anatolia was never an armenian territory….even if it had been,so what?it is ours,now.it belonged to the eastern rome and we conquered it.:)your obsessive compulsive behavior and rudeness against turks is very clear now.u even went to turania?there is no turania…the land is called turan:)and u even curse at the people living there.assuredly u could not have had the guts to vomit your curses while u were there.typical of hypocrites like u.each time u see turks,u must be having a pathetic squirming accompanied by convulsions and seizures of the mind and the body as if electrified on barbed wire…
    tell stories somewhere else….i will no longer read your silly comments.why did the armenians betray the byzantine empire?why did they betray the ottomans 900 years later?such a treacerous nation…when will the armenians betray the united states?:)such rudeness does not become a man who deals with anthropology.your hatred against turks will make u even more sick some day u will end up in a mental hospital.what i suggest is,learn to be a human being,first,lurtz the hypocrite.:)

    Comment by goyathlay — July 26, 2011 @ 3:09 am

  63. vardan(vartan)mamikonian(!)who is a wannabe?lurtz take the made-saint-by the armenian church figure in history to address to himself at times when he wants to curse also at youtube.there are historical rumors that vartan was assumed to be of chinese origins.’tian li’ explains why lurtz gets to be tian li…:)
    vardan(the saint) is a historical figure the fascist armenians adore as the protector of christianity.so,our lurtz the hypoctrite is in fact also a vardan mamikonian wannabe:)woooowww:)and also lurtz must be a firm believor that vardan the historical ”saint” was of chinese origins….(possibly he could be a turkic one coming from china,ha ha….hold your temper lurtz,i am only joking:))how many multi-split personalities a person may have on the internet:))so, lurtz is a defender of christianity wannabe meanwhile pretending to be a native american:))ok,lurtz,would u mind if i used the name talat pasha as a nickname here?.stay at your temper,only kidding:)lurtz the armenian for sure is also a lurtz wannabe:)what a shame a big guy interested so much in the movies that appeal to only kids.being so carried away by the hatred of turks and his wannabe styles,lurtz has also been in turkestan(turan) for some possible intelli…..no,better not write it all here..
    as most armenians are,lurtz the vardan,the lian ti,has based his entire life on the hatred of turks.what a waste of time and pity:)he finds the meaning of life dedicated solely on swearing at turks.multi split personality he displays on the net stems from his turko-phobia and turko-hatred.living in california he knows about the almost lost yokuts,and sometimes being a ”native” he cannot blurt out ”punchaw” in no time but much later as he had to go over the kechuan dictionaries….tukaka:)an amerindian word again to convey ”spit”….in turkish we also have that word in the same meaning and lurtz the multi-split personality man assuredly can understand a word also in turkish as he can speak it.
    lurtz,ataturk,talat pasha,the turks,the ottomans……when u hear those words do u go mad now?go to the doctor’s…otherwise u will lose contact with the reality that life bears out for u:)
    thank god we did not genocide your nation after your betrayal and massive ethnic cleansings.go and vomit your wrath and anger at the russians and armenians who encouraged u to attack from behind while the ottomans were fighting the russians and eurpean countries.after living as a privileged nation among us the ottomans from 1071 to 1900s,as the richest minority of the empire,look at what u had done :)there was a pay-back,wasnt there,lurtz:)man up and just be brave as to pay manly.remember my letters which contained the word ”master of puppets?”u always lie shamelessly although u know u cannot delude god as he sees u lying,and just as your being a native is a lie u made up to sneak in,so is a lie the ”armenian genocide”.and u were trying to tell us the definition of the word ”genicide” in one of your letters here…:)if we had attempted to kill u all,none of u would have survived as there was nobody to save u apart from the ottomans.
    by the way,u were curious about my lineage.let me tell u with no lies….mother’s side.oghuz(bozok-kayı-sarıkeçili yoruk)…note that the ottomans were of kayı of bozok branch of the turks too…father’s side:tatar nomadic(yoruk)…but i know what is above nationality is to be able to be a human being.at university,i had a friend called attila.he was an armenian boy.there are many armenians who live in turkiye with turkic or armenian names.so,u tell me to look in the mirror…do not tell us lies the scenarios of which are prepared by countries that drivel upon anatolia with a non-ceasing appetite…no,we are not giving it back…u had suddenly changed sides at malazgirt from the byzantine army to turkish army in 1071.then u suddenly turned to europeans and russians who had promised u for a country in exchange for a state they would provide for u on the turkish lands.u knew what was coming:)the byzantines were collapsing.u knew that.later the ottomans were crumbling and u knew that too.but u did not know what wouldave happened if u could not make it.and u could not defeat the turks who were weak during the time.therefore,remember my former letters in which i cried out to u that u are a loser?we have a saying” hinayet onmaz”…the ilwilled do not make profits….well,u know turkish too:)
    so,some say even the new country u live in is going down…sinking…it is very likely that it is close u will betray them too…typical inferior nation.
    for your curiosity about whether i looked like an arab or not…..as i am from a nomadic lineage,and as my ancestors were settled by the ottomans in the last periods of the ottoman history,i have no balkanian turks,no armenians,no greeks,no persians,no kurds,no other minority group blood in my parental history.
    only tatar and oghuz…i do not look like arabs.i look like some apache and middle asian turks.in my early ancestry there are uyghur turks too.but as the uyghurs belonged to the 9 oghuz branch,it was a minor detail.if i carried armenian blood purely,i would still not leave my country at what expense it would be.my mentality is not based on hypocrisy like u,nor is it based upon treachery.i suggest that u let bygones be bygones and get rid of the cancer-like turkish hatred in you,for it will always make u a ”little sad man”
    this is my last letter here.i shall write no more so that u may come back to your senses…good luck with your fancy names.:))
    unutma asla bunu ermeni adam:turkleri öldürebilirsin,ama asla yenemezsin…bunu soyleyen unlu fransız komutan….senin efendin olan.seni kukla eden…

    Comment by goyathlay — July 26, 2011 @ 5:56 am

  64. and the dog that pretended to be native american stopped barking as the caravan moved on…very reflective of the armenian attitude,it is this hypocrisy he has just as it is the defamatory allegations the armenians bark out at us,turks.chinese-armenian cross-breed dovetails the lian ti and vartan…how sickening the chinese are by eating all those bugs,monkey brains(while the monkey is alive)….two brutal nations ironically put the blame on us.
    it ürüdü,kervan yürüdü…there is no war that u can defeat us in…
    to my native american brothers…come to turkiye,see how turks will embrace u in anatolia.see gallipoli where the whites lost to us with many deaths they left behind.see the museum in canakkale which displays evidently what war crimes they committed.my native brothers,do not believe in losers like armenians and the nations that lived happily under our rule throughout history.with all my respect to all the real americans.i have always prayed for u,and will always do,to the almighty one creator.we do not believe in three gods like the christians.we believe in one supreme creator like u….

    Comment by goyathlay — August 4, 2011 @ 5:37 pm

  65. Nope. You went off on wild tangents unrelated to anything genetic or anthropological (though the latters is at odds with geneticists some of the time). But you mentioning that you live in Turkey is all that needs to be said. Turkey is the nexus of turkish/turanian nationalism, truth be told. It adds more validation (as if it needed anymore) to your rants on “victimization” and persecution. And this bit…

    “anatolia was never an armenian territory….even if it had been,so what?it is ours,now”

    Very, very similar to what a number of white Americans say when confonted with the history the United States had (and currently still does) with Indians. You’ve got a lot in common with white Americans in this respect. Good on you.

    P.S. I don’t speak a lick of Armenian.

    Comment by Lurtz — August 8, 2011 @ 1:34 am

  66. sure u dont speak armenian. :) yes,we genocided all the armenians,greeks,arabs,serbians,albanians,
    iranians,jews,hungarians,russians,chinese,indians in india,africans,italians,germans,and all the nations.how bad we are…we are genociding the kurds now…u have a picture of turks that your sucky ancestors cultivated and inculcated in your mind,and that picture obviously shows your stinking hearts.
    fuck off armenian bastard….go and take your shit with u.such a sticky dirt that lingers on…armenian dung.

    Comment by goyathlay — August 9, 2011 @ 3:29 am

  67. u r scared that turan will happen some day and armenia will be surrounded by us…yes,that is exactly what will happen.we are like white americans :) wow,what a big deduction…lurtz the expert talking…genetics showed that we are akin to natives,and i have given the links above.go on denying,armenian…the linguistic is evidently giving the proofs that we are akin to native americans….go on denying indian pretending armenian.all the proof does not need your endorsement…your approval or disapproval does not mean anything.u r babbling like an armenian bastard who incessantly hates us.
    only armenians can live in armenia but no turks as they were ousted or slain.nobody gives u a shit in the usa.nobody likes the armenians in the usa.and armenians are always sad as they always cry…turks killed us.turks killed us,turks killed us,turks killed us.when someone salutes u,u directly say ”turks killed us” just like a crying machine whose button once pressed,speaks out brainwashed by your mothers who taught u to hate turks.u never blame yourselves.turks did not kill u.kurds killed u,vartan mamikonian….why did u restrict your profile after i wrote about u here?your profile in the youtube?u rsetricted it to secure yourself…
    i now see how big a hatred the armenians arein…betray the white americans,u armenian and let us see whether they will let u live…vartan mamikonian the youtube hero who fights off turks is the lurtz here and in other websites he can even turn into women :) and even turkish women who writes in english opposing to the fact that we and the native americans are related.u told us here that we turks were related to the chinese and armenians:))i would rather be related to animals than armenians or the chinese…if i were an armenian,i would surely hate my nation for the treacherous,murderous,and defamatory ways they had in the past.if i were an armenian,i would just be disgusted with the armenians.if i were an armenian,i would become a muslim.aha,by the way,i had caught a glimpse of your vidos an the youtube in which u swear at islam saying it was ”a pissssss religion…”.i mean before u restricted your profile.vARTAN MAMİKONİAN,U SHOULD SUCK UP TO THE WHİTE MEN PARLİAMENTS TO MAKE THEM FORCE US TO USURP THE GENOCİDE TALES U MADE UP.man up and stop pretending as if u were a native.no,u cannot do that…some day i hope i will bump into u,be it in the states or elsewhere,and i will spit in your face.

    Comment by goyathlay — August 9, 2011 @ 4:11 am

  68. we are the same as the white american?ha ha…we defeated the white guys like armenians,greeks,british,etc…tian li lurtz,we also defeated the chinese many times in the past.we did not kill any native american :) we do not kill relatives. :) so,that makes a difference.
    the spanish fleets or the portugese or the italian fleets could not sail in the mediterranean once upon a time.we conquered anatolia at malazgirt.the turkish army was formed by 50 000 people wheras the byzantine army was 250 000….and your ancestors changed sides during the war.betrayal….the byzantine king was saying before the war:”i will send the turks back to mongolia”,look we are still here.
    60 millions of turks in anatolia still exist.and ther are more than 100 million in asia….breivik needs u in prison…go and ally him :)
    by the way,do u know that the afghans and pakistanis in europe,especially in the nordic countries tell the nordic people that they are turks,although they are not?even the iranians do say that in europe although they are not turks.so that means turks are a hero in the eyes of the muslim nations.soon all the native americans will be saying the same thing.
    and let us analyze u a bit.tian li,lurtz,and some other names in other websites….multi split personality disorder?no,u do that on purpose.u can even be pretending to be a turk writing on several websites.u lived with us as the wealthiest of the minorities during the ottomans and just as u betrayed the byzantine empire,u betrayed us during the war.u started genociding the turks,the kurds,the arabs in anatolia and u thought they would not get back at u.we know waht u did in erzurum. we never forget the past either.unlike u,we never cry like u losers.the west is going down.and the rising star will be turkiye,and turan…go on barking,here and go on crying in aprils…commemorate how the turks did not let u get anatolia.:))u cannot even man up and confess u r an armenian.i do not count u as a man.loser armenian.we do not buy that u r nativeVARTAN MAMİKONİAN,THE HİSTORİCAL FİGURE İS CHİNESE BY ORİGİNS:)U HAVE NOT EVEN A HERO İN YOUR HİSTORY THAT İS REALLY AN ARMENİAN.TWO CHİNESE HAD COME TO ANATOLİA DURİNG THE TİME.MAMİK AND KONAK CAME TO ANATOLİA….KONAK SOUNDS TURKİC.İT İS NOT AS CHİNESE WORD.AND NEİTHER İS MAMİK…
    u r a barbarian armenian.forget about the eastern anatolia or mount ararat….kurds want all the territory,too.they claim like u,armenians that they were always there and we should go back to mongolia.. :) then,u should go back to where u came from.come to anatolia then…
    it is no use mamikkkk:)u r trying in vain.vartan mamikonian or david should i say?californian boy,sad boy,do not try to look innocent by comparing turkish conquests to white men genocides.do not try looking innocent by associating yourself with the natives.what they did to natives is not what we did to armenians. or others.
    i am a turanist.i am a muslim.i am fanatic but not a hypocrite like u.where did your ancestors use to live in turkiye?van?hm?come to van,the kurds will appreciate u.. .:) they really butched u back.how bad it was…
    u r still hurt.they are killing people in turkiye now.just like u used to do.and i am sure they will pay back sooner or later for all the killings they did.who helps the pkk?the white men:))your men…they talk like armenians sometimes.in the pkk there were lots of terrorists killed and identified.so,we see a kurdish arnenian union in the pkk.and the grreks were helping them.now greeks suffer a lot from financial crisis.
    30 years they have been killing us.what happens now?still nothing….50 000 terrorists of pkk were killed since 1990.they killed many turks.they died in return.do u know that there are many armenians living in turkiye?still,yes,and some are very rich.but unfortunately no turk lives in armenia because they were killed.u either do not know the facts or u know but deny.u talk like a typical armenian.vartan mamikonian,if u like,i can visit u in california.if u can behave like a man,i can always talk to u in person.u will see that the turanists are not monsters.or perhaps u might want to kill me thinking that u have avenged the past.:))

    Comment by goyathlay — August 9, 2011 @ 5:04 am

  69. faq-armeniandilemma.blogspot.com/2008_04_01_archive.html
    those who associate the turks with the white men who genocided the native americans should not skip over the fact that the armenians survive on the hatred of turks.turks ruled in many parts of the world.that is why they are hated.that is a matter of jealousy and inferiority complex of those nations ruled by turks.
    the armenians who accuse turks of genocide and occupiers of their lands had betrayed the byzantine empire during the war of 1071 and that is what they also did to the ottomans on an extensive basis a century ago.they killed on and on till they were stopped by the ottomans.armenians deserved what they got and were deported from anatolia.but not all were deported.some survive pretending to be kurds and alevis.some survive as armenians in turkiye.for about 900 years,they were a privileged and richest minority along with the jews in the ottoman and seljuk periods of turkish history.even today,there are lots of rich armenians and jewish people in turkiye,as well as many rich kurdish people.ingratitude is some people’s ways and we leave them to the wrath of the creator.
    most armenian parents teach their kids to hate turks….a fact known in the usa and elsewhere.

    Comment by goyathlay 'wannabe' — August 12, 2011 @ 9:47 am

  70. Well done Goyathlay…Armenians are the brothers of Turks, just like American Indians. They’ve lived together for such a long time. But Lurtz is a brother to noone because he’s a betrayer and a liar, hiding his true identity, guilty of travesty of justice here. Only people who base their argument on scientific evidence should contribute-the ones with blind eyes should do their researches well before opening their lolly mouths. If Turkic people exterminated all these nations, what the hell are they still doing here then? Most of the ‘few remaining’ American Indians were forced to forget their origins just like this Armenian sad little man who probably suffers from some kind of a personality disorder. Facts are facts, whatever people like him say will not change a thing. Language and customs are there as the strongest evidence of interaction and direct relation.

    Comment by eat_my_dust — November 19, 2011 @ 3:16 am

  71. u r definitely right,eat-my-dust….thank u so much for your appreciation.

    Comment by goyathlay — November 25, 2011 @ 6:03 pm

  72. lol Talking to yourself again, Goya?

    Comment by Lurtz — December 5, 2011 @ 6:24 am

  73. i am not like u who has multi-split personality disorders,jerk armenian from california…vartan mamikonian who cliams to be indian :)

    Comment by goyathlay — December 8, 2011 @ 7:28 pm

  74. I am native american, and live in Turkey. This subject has come up in question a few times, but like many say, most of it stems from a nationalist idea. If Turks are so true to their roots and think they are related to native americans, why did they abandon that culture for the arabs in the first place? Turks are so far from their ancestory as a result of blindly following so many different leaders, something the native americans never did, so they are nothing alike other than a few words. Do you think the Turkic tribes in the Altai mountains relate themselves to the Tayyip? I don’t think so, so don’t do it to them.

    This linguistic similarity is the only semi-proof that exists, but how do you know those words weren’t borrowed from non-related neighboring tribes in Siberia who later crossed the Bering land bridge? Maybe they left Siberia in search of America to get away from the Turks, ever think of that? Most native americans believe that they were the first people created by the great Creator anyways. Some even believe the Algonquin people came from the Mediterranean, long before the Turks even dreamed of creating an empire. There are just way too many possibilities for anything to be true, and to become angry and defend something you’re not even sure of will get your nowhere but looking like an idiot. Plus unlike the Turks, there is no Ergenekon story where our people had sex with wolves.

    Comment by Blackened — December 20, 2011 @ 4:08 pm

  75. vartan mamikonian-like person babbling here saying that he was a native american living in turkiye :) what are u arguing about here?what does the issue have to do with tayyip?u look like a sick idiot here…all the evidence is cited above armenian jerk…if u are a douche there is nothing one can do about it vartan the bastard mamikonian.i really pity u armenian.u r so ignorant and fraught with multi split personality disorders.tatal pasha must have turned u all into monkeys like that :) may the algonquin peoples fuck u… :)

    Comment by goyathlay the talat pasha — December 21, 2011 @ 11:50 am

  76. Ah yes, the classic Armenian-Turk internet battle. The funny thing about Armenians and Turks in this argument is that they both think they’re right, and will never give that up. I posted something totally unrelated to the argument between you and your Armenian nemesis, and yet you still go on to attack him, and maybe even thinking that I am him posting in another name. I think you have some deep rooted problems my friend. I don’t see a reason why nationalist scum like yourselves should be posting on a site devoted to leftist thinking anyway. Defol.

    And to answer your question, I am not arguing anything. I am stating that there are too many possibilities with too little evidence to try to draw up any pseudo-science conclusions. The fact of the matter is, turks and native americans are so far apart culturally today that it is non-sense to make a relationship between them other than linguistic similarities. Just because I am speaking english and have part english ancestry, it doesn’t necessarily mean I fight with people to defend germanic roots, because that is a sick fascist ideology.

    I used Tayyip as an example because according to 50% of the country (Turkey) who voted for him, he is the typical man of modern day Turkey. The funny thing is, he claims he is Georgian, which goes to show that most people in Turkey hardly even have that much actual Turkic ancestry. However, the people of Turkey are more proud and nationalist of their Turkic roots then any of the other Turkic countries, even though they have the least Turk blood. Being ‘Turk’ in modern Turkey doesn’t necessarily mean you are Turkic. Ataturk even said ‘Happy is he who CALLS HIMSELF a Turk’ because Turkey is so mixed with other cultures under one ‘identity.’ I would like to hear some intellectual comments on the subject of turkic-native american relations with an actual Turkic Turk (from Siberia).

    Comment by Blackened — December 21, 2011 @ 12:33 pm

  77. fart-an mamixter,u r a lost case…go on farting…by the way,u live in turkiye :) your mouth turns into an ass that emits gas of the blackened armenians.
    our president may be georgian by origins but he is turkish by culture and past…our president is a muslim.
    Ataturk is no man u can even articulate the name of as his honorable name does not suit an ass-like mouth that releases gas against turks and natives. :)
    defolmuyorum,götün yiyorsa gel defet,piç…u need some translation or perhaps u understand all these…
    we are a nation who accepts other nations within us,unlike u racist armenians who slaughtered all the azeri turks that once inhabited armenia…there is no turk living in armenia whereas there are many armenians living in turkiye.moreover,we do not persecute them.
    turks came to anatolia from siberia…in siberia there is a place called angara and our capital city is ankara,pronounced as angara by those who live there.u have no idea about the turkic history and the native american history…so,u had better kick the bricks…all u have been trying was tgo stop me from writing as i gave the pieces of truth and evidence about the genetic and linguistic and cultural affinities here.
    as i said before jerk:
    İT ÜRÜR KERVAN YÜRÜR: ALTHOUGH THE DOG(u)BARKS ON,THE CARAVAN MOVES ON…
    u talk like some bastards who claim there are no turks in turkiye…poor bastard.inferiority complex cannot stranglle the truth…
    siktir git hadi :)

    Comment by enver pasha,talat pasha,ataturk,2. abdulhamid,tayyip ....goyathlay — December 21, 2011 @ 12:58 pm

  78. I don’t even know why I’m responding to you on this, I just thought I’d say one last thing before I go. It looks like you’ve been on here defending your ideology since 2009, that’s a long time. You call anyone who leaves a comment an ‘Armenian’ because you hate them so much. You’re quite an angry person, and I hope you come to a realization someday and learn how to forgive, and live without so much vein.

    And for you’re own record, I am not this Lurtz guy you were talking with. I really am a registered status indian in Canada, and I am definitely not Armenian or Turk, nor do I relate my families history with either of them despite making a personal choice to live in Turkiye.

    kendine iyi bak abi. It urur kervan yuru ama parlayan kopek isirmaz.

    Comment by Blackened — December 21, 2011 @ 2:51 pm

  79. dear blackened type of lurtz :)
    1)i am free to write wherever i want and as much as i wish.be it 2009 or 2009 b.c.,it is my choice and will to do so.
    2)i do not care where u live and your attempts to be convincing by means of telling us the story that u were a native american is a mere failure on your part.
    3)as i was trying to write the facts about genetic and linguistic affinities along with the cultural ones,mr.lurtz pretending to be a native american suddenly comes up with contemptuous ways to insult my nation and our history.are u blind?look how he tries to sabotage my listed messages that contain loads of scientific facts detected by not me but by scientists.and he provokes turks by alluding to some sort of genocide he was taught to rave all the time,alleging that we killed the poor flawless armenians and greeks.
    4)why do not u get the stuff listed above?does it hurt u so much?what if americans were our nation?what if we spoke it out?what if it were leftist or a rightist website?the truth is truth and i am not the only one who believes in the listed genetic and linguistic facts cited above,most of which u and mr lurtz keeps on denying while trying to fool people…
    5)i would suggest that u should leave this country straight away if u hate ergenokon,which tells about a revival of the turks after being made to perish.was it not u who called our ancestors as the ones that had sex with the wolf?so,u had better not prefer to live with the wolves as they never bark…the one who keeps on barking to sabotage my writings here is blackened sort of lurtz.
    6)as for the hatred…i do not hate armenians who do not hate us.i hate armenians who hates us.lurtz had videos he shared on youtube which exactly brought out his racist attitudes agains turks,azeri turks and so on…so,aggression breeds agression.
    7)turkiye held out a hand of peace to armenia by way of tayyip that u mock,and mr.gül…what did armenia do,how did they respond?
    i am not supposed to like armenians as long as they bear out that vulgar attitude fraught with lies they claim…we still know and recall what asala did.we know there are parliaments the members of which decide just by raising hands to vote for the genocide they made up in their minds…
    8)note that the wolf never barks.it is u that barks here because it is so hard for u to take the truth that the natives are our relatives.
    9)angara is also in turkiye as well as in buryatia…tula is in euroasia as well as in siberia and america…before barking at the caravan,please make your comments more logical…u have no scientific proof that the natives have no connection with turks.but we have as many as the total that proves it…
    10)stop lying about your ancestry…
    u will never stop me writing….u say u know i have been writing since 2009,so what?are u disturbed by the pieces of info jotted down here?why?u have a hatred of turks,may be the answer.and sir,pack up your belongings and get the hell out of my country…
    11)the caravan moves on and u carry on barking,true,we are not afraid of u as the barking dog never bites…even if it bit,we would not be deterred from moving on…those who bark at me should know that they fall short of any clear evidence to shut my mouth,namely,like u blackened lurtz :)
    U R NOT A NATIVE AMERICAN…BYE BLACKENED,TİME FOR U TO BOW TO THE FACTS LİSTED İN MY WHOLE MESSAGES.”BOW DOWN,OR BOW OUT”

    Comment by GOYATHLAY... — December 21, 2011 @ 9:14 pm

  80. lan blackened domuzu,35. ve 44. ve 29. mesajlarımı oku…
    hose brained blackened (lurtz) or whatever,read the messages numbered as 35,44,29…
    sen itsin havla dur…u r a dog,go on barking. :)

    Comment by GOYATHLAY... — December 21, 2011 @ 9:30 pm

  81. This is lulzy indeed. I only ever posted three videos on Youtube and two were brief vids about playing HL2. I’m certain if any one would bother to read this lolfest of a thread that goya went on a tl;dr rant about being victims essentially summoning historical grievances. Hey, I didn’t start it. lol It’s also hilarious as one who constantly drops articles about genetic relations he/she/it fails to realize his/her/its connection to other human groups around the world (Journey of Man, anyone?). How long until goya begins to accuse his mirror reflection of being this mamikonian fellow?

    Comment by Lurtz — January 2, 2012 @ 6:40 pm

  82. liar lurtz mamikonian,then why do u bother to deter me from stating the genetic and linguistic findings?if u wanna lol,u may,which obviosly shows u as if u ARE a laughing idiot.u r an armenian who pokes his nose into matters u have no idea about.u have multi split personality disorders fraught with hatred against turks.go on lolling till u find out the truth.it is not your business to criticize people.does it stick in your _fart-an mamikonian ass_ when people drop messages related to the topic?go on getting disturbed and veil your hatred by way of your morone burst-outs of lols :) that is how u sabotage people who want to talk and speak out their opinions and the findings of scientists.that hatred of turks in u will turn u into a clown being laughed at…so,people should not speak as lurtz bade :)

    Comment by GOYATHLAY — January 3, 2012 @ 2:26 pm

  83. to u mr. lousy,creepy,cheesy,junkie:;we believe all humans are related.we believe in adam and eve…u tell us about africa stories which include monkey being the anestors of human race.(we do not believe in evolution of darwin) so,that means that we are not related to mr.
    fart-on mamikonian(maymunian=monkeyian :) so,u with the sticking messages to those mine deserve an appriciation in that u are determined to deter me from writing…all u try is to drag the subject matter into channels that do not discuss the topic.u r a sticking being whose ancestors are assumed to be monkeys.

    Comment by GOYATHLAY — January 3, 2012 @ 2:57 pm

  84. Amerikalı ve Rus antropologların araştırmasında, Kuzey Amerika kıtasının ilk sakinleriningenetik beşiğinin Sibirya’nın güneyindeki dağlık Altay bölgesi olduğu ortaya çıktı.

    ASYA’DAN AMERİKA’YA
    ABD’deki İnsan Genetiği dergisinde yayımlanan araştırmayı yapanlardan Pennsylvania Üniversitesi Antropoloji bölümü Doçenti Theodore Schurr, Rusya, Moğolistan, Çin ve Kazakistan’ın kesiştiği Altay bölgesinin onbinlerce yıldır çok sayıda halkın gelip gittiği kilit bir yer olduğunu belirtti.

    Araştırmaya göre, Amerika kıtasındaki ilk insanların ataları bu halklardan biriydi ve bugün Rusya Federasyonu’nun bir parçası olan Altay’dan 20 bin ila 25 bin yıl önce gelmişlerdi.

    HER İKİ GRUPTA DA AYNI GENETİK
    Asyalılara ait genetik özelliklere sahip bu insanlar, o dönemde sular altında olmayan Bering boğazını geçmeden önce tüm Sibirya’yı katettiler.

    Araştırmalarında, Amerikalı kızılderililerin ve Güney Altay bölgesinde yaşayan yerli kavimlerin DNA’larında Y kromozumunu (babadan geçen) analiz eden bilim adamları, iki grubun paylaştığı ve bunlara özgü genetik mutasyonu bulmaya çalıştılar.

    Araştırmanın sonucunda, Amerikalı ve Rus antropologlar, her iki grupta da, anneden miras mitokondriyal genlerde de aynı genetik özellikleri buldular.

    Çalışmalarında bu mutasyonların ortaya çıkması için ne kadar zaman geçmesi gerektiğini hesaplayan bilim adamları, Altay genlerinin 13 bin ila 14 bin yıl önce Amerikalı yerlilerinkinden ayrıldığını tahmin ediyorlar.

    Comment by GOYATHLAY — January 27, 2012 @ 2:02 pm

  85. http://www.ensonhaber.com/kizilderililerin-turklugu-ispatlandi-2012-01-27.html

    SO,THOSE WHO OPPOSE TO THE FACT THAT THE NATIVE AMERİCANS have TURKIC ANCESTRY SHOULD HAVE A LOOK AT THE LINK ABOVE AND GET THE TRANSALTION DONE TO GET THE GIST OF THE FACT :) those who keep making nonsense about the origins of the natives had better revise their thoughts.

    Comment by GOYATHLAY — January 27, 2012 @ 2:07 pm

  86. bear in mind that the whole turks originated in altay mountains and some separation may have occured before the ergenekon and other turkic legends in asia may have come into being.so,that may be the cause for some algonquins not sharing the similar legends with turks.
    genetic evidence tells it all leaving us with no doubts…

    Comment by GOYATHLAY — January 27, 2012 @ 2:25 pm

  87. so,the research carried out by russian and american scientists shows that the altaic turks have a close genetic resemblance to the native americans.that is the proof that the native americans were not created in america,but that they migrated to america via the bering strait.
    both the maternal and paternal lineages of theirs have their ends in the turks living in the altai mountains.altai mountains were and are still homes of all the turkic tribes and nations,including the mongolians who also share the same legend called the ergenekon with turks.that legend is called kapaktakon in the inka culture.
    yakut turks,tuva turks,and other turkic tribes scattered all over asia are truly the brothers of the american natives.
    SO,SOME PEOPLE WHO WRİTE İN ROB’S BOG,MAKİNG FUN OF THE FACT THAT TURKS AND NATİVES ARE CLOSELY RELATED HAVE TURNED OUT TO BE WRONG.TURKEY İS WRONG…TURKİYE İS RİGHT :)
    i thank all those scientists who found out the genetic truths and who revealed it.
    those who used to laugh and crowd the path now have to reconsider their ways and fartings through their mouths.

    Comment by GOYATHLAY — February 4, 2012 @ 10:45 am

  88. Conrats, Goyathlay. Now, the theory is predicated. There are some fake Indians on the youtube who say they are natives that see themselves more close to Armenians than to Turks as they believe that the Armenians are too genocided.
    They must be also Armenians as they always make allusions to Turks and their ”ominous” ways.

    Comment by yana — February 4, 2012 @ 12:58 pm

  89. You won this debate, by showing the very genetic evidence. Thank you for all your efforts and explanations.

    Comment by alina — February 10, 2012 @ 2:27 pm

  90. so,i guess the genetic evidence laid down by the russian and american scientists proves it all i cited down here.i got my references from the sources that verify my views.those idiots who opposed to the fact have nothing to say anymore.in rob’s blog there were people who mocked the truth…they had better look themselves in the mirror now which reflects their image as whining clowns…:)

    Comment by GOYATHLAY — March 2, 2012 @ 11:02 am

  91. “By analyzing DNA from people in all regions of the world, geneticist Spencer Wells has
    concluded that all humans alive today are descended from a single man who lived in Africa
    around 60,000 years ago….”
    -Spencer Wells “Journy of Man: A Genetic Odyssey

    “Fossil, genetic, and archaeological data currently accumulating from sub-Saharan Africa supports an African origin of modern humans sometime between 200 and 150 kya [6–10], but the timing and the geographic routes along which they migrated out of Africa have never been resolved.”
    “With the advent of intensive research on modern human mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA), paleoanthropology attained a turning point; among other things, the genetic data reinforced the Out-of-African origin theory and set possible scenarios for human dispersals [21–23].”
    -Upper Pleistocene Human Dispersals out of Africa: A Review of the Current State of the Debate from International Journal of Evolutionary Biology
    Volume 2011

    “In a 1987 Nature article, Rebecca Cann and her co-workers, Mark Stoneking and the late Allan Wilson, painstakingly analyzed mitochondrial DNA purified from placentas that had been collected from women of many different ancestral origins. By comparing the mitochondrial DNA variants to each other, the authors produced a phylogenetic tree that showed how human mitochondria are all related to each other and, by implication, how all living females, through whom mitochondria are transmitted, are descended from a single maternal ancestor. Not only that, they localized the root of the tree in Africa.”
    – All About Mitochondrial Eve: An Interview with Rebecca Cann from Gitschier J (2010) All About Mitochondrial Eve: An Interview with Rebecca Cann. PLoS Genet 6(5): e1000959. doi:10.1371/journal.pgen.1000959

    “In the beginning, there was mitochondrial Eve–a woman who lived in Africa between 100,000 and 200,000 years ago and was ancestral to all living humans. Geneticists traced her identity by analyzing DNA passed exclusively from mother to daughter in the mitochondria, energy-producing organelles in the cell. Scientists have been searching ever since for “Adam,” the man whose Y chromosome was passed on to every living man and boy. Now two international teams have found the genetic trail leading to Adam–and it points to the same time and place where mitochondrial Eve lived. Described this month at a symposium on human evolution at Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory in New York, the genetic trail is so clear that it allows researchers to compare the migration patterns of men and women tens of thousands of years ago”
    – Y Chromosome Shows That Adam Was an African from Science 31 October 1997

    This trumps anything you can bring up, Goya. The genetic evidence that we’re all of African descent trumps every other ethnic/cultural/racial identity. Now embrace your black kin like the good grandson you are. Your black forefathers should be pleased. rofl Now have your geneticists argue against these arguments. They can’t because they would have to fully support them. So, nope, Indians are still not turkish/turanian/mongol/etc. You have your supporters’ shoulders to cry on.

    Comment by Lurtz — March 6, 2012 @ 1:54 am

  92. no,no,adam was armenian :)

    Comment by yakamoz — March 7, 2012 @ 7:20 pm

  93. Goyathlay gave the references related to the topic to be discussed here.Lurtz the bastardian still maintains talking about Africa.The problem with Lurtz is that he just steers and tries to pull the discussion onto grounds where humanity ”started”.
    lurtz is just a silly fella who has nothing to say against the confirmed evidences by genecists who put it clear and not precarious that Turks and native Americans are related not only genetically but also linguistically and culturally.
    Turks address to an old man (who is as old as his father) as ‘uncle’ as a sign of respect.The northern natives used to do the same…(unlike any other culture)
    Turks still address to old ladies as mother or aunt although the lady is no relative. It was the same way with the natives as observed by the white men who mugged the lands from them.
    The topic here is not the dawn of humankind.It is whether the natives are Turks or not.
    Many a data such as the ones conveyed here by Goyathlay easily proves with no doubt that the Native americans were Turks and in part Mongolians who crossed the Bering Strait.
    Lurtz, i guess you had better end that racist anti-Turkic hatred and envy in you which really makes one feel you are a procurist clown.
    We support Goyathlay as he makes sense,unlike you,Lurtz. We do not buy that african theories, nor do we buy your superficial irrelevant,indiscrepant and deficient words and ideas.
    I wonder whether Turks got your wife or girlfriend so that it is why you hate Turks so much.

    Comment by Tashunka Vuitko — March 7, 2012 @ 7:47 pm

  94. Dismissing the overwhelming genesis of man with its origins in Africa? lol Another pretendian, “Tashunka”? Despite overwhelming support of the Out of Africa hypothesis, you don’t buy it. Derp. Trying to attach modern ethnic categories on a prehistoric paleo-Indian population while trying to cover up the African origin of modern day turks. Oh, that’s rich because paleo-populations were so defined by modern ethnic identities. Sarcasm, if you missed it. Love to break it to you, but Indians aren’t turks nor mongols.

    Comment by Lurtz — March 7, 2012 @ 9:58 pm

  95. You are squirming to tell the same things irrelevant.Everything is in the open now:It has been proven that the natives are Turks.Lurtz is an angry man with a kicked ass :)

    Comment by greywolf — March 8, 2012 @ 10:01 am

  96. I think Lurtz should talk it over with Darwin.Darwinism is obsolete,now.Nobody sensible believes in the emerging of mankind from Africa.Vardan Mamikonian still seems to be themore obstinate the more he gets his ass kicked in the discussion.And he says he is a native American because he is afraid of the firmity of the evidences supplied by Goyathlay.Lutz as an armenian spins around himself with the same things he says like a crazy man with no brains left.

    Comment by kanah — March 8, 2012 @ 10:40 am

  97. Altai mountains is where Turks still live and originated from.If the genetic evidence shows us that the natives were geneogically related both on paternal and maternal dna to the altai residents now,then,it sums up that the assertions brought about by Goyathlay is correct.Goyathlay gave the link to the genetical researches carried out by American and Russian scientists above.Nevertheless,dumbs like Lurtz may oppose stubbornly meanwhile unveiling his enmity agains Turks.Truth be told,Lurtz is simply a jerk that follows Goyathlay to make him shut up because he knows well that Goyathlay knows a lot about the topic.Being disturbed by the concise and precise evidences Goyathlay pointed out, Lurtz the abhorrent fake Indıan endeavours in vain to deter him from undisguising the confirmed truth about the mysterious origins of the natives.That is very clear from the manner he imposes in his writings.
    not only the Altayan Turks are related to the native Americans,but also the TUvans,the khakas,the Tatars,and the Turks in Turkiye are…Na-dene are also found to be related to the Uyghur Turks.
    Do not panic, LUrtz, Even before what Goyathlay wrote here, most of the northern natives knew about the topic.
    ulmec= a turkic tribe name in asia. olmec= the name of a nation in mezoamerica…This life allows not many coincidences unlike what Darwin pointed out.ulmec vs olmec affinity,genetical evidences,cultural evidences,linguistical evidences make it all clear that nothing was formed up due to a mere chain of coincidences…But, the rattle pated Lurtz-like people who hate Turks had better go on being disturbed :)

    Comment by talatawi — March 8, 2012 @ 4:16 pm

  98. The hun funerals looked alike those of the northern natives.The huns used to walk around the dead body seven times like some native american rituals.
    Turks used to believe in only one creator before islam,in majority.Most northern natives used to believe in one creator as well.
    How did the ergenokon-like Kapaktakon legend travel to where inkas lived from where Turks lived as the Beringa strait no longer connected the two continents?
    howcome it could be possible that the sumerians who spoke a turkic like language with skulls looking like those of the Turks’ built similar constructions that looked like those built by olmecs,toltecs,mayas and aztecs?
    why does the mayan language show very close linguistic similarities to turkic ones?
    Why do the paternal and maternal dna show us great affinities and the facts that could be traced back to separation being some thosands of years from Turks?
    Once the humanity was one nation.Noah’s son Ham went to africa…japeth,his brother went to Asia…science should also take into consideration this knowledge.shem.or we call him Sam became the white race’s ancestor.the black man’S ancestor became Ham.
    and the eastern people’s ancestor became Japeth,according to koran and ilamic teachings.
    japeth had many sons.kin(chinese ancestor),GOG AND MAGOG(NOT PRESENT NOW),moğol,and Turk was also his sons.science tries to fumble for its way out only in africa because it is biased about the origins of humanity,tieing it only to evolution of man from the apes…
    All humans are related…this is not the topic here.the topic is where the native americans came from and who are their ancestors.
    turk was noah’s grandson and that name lived since japeth gave that name to him.from turk and moğol descended oghuz,kırghız and other turkic nations.
    the name turk is ancient and even the sumerian records mention the attacks made by turuks or turks to the sumerian lands…that dates back to more than 5000 years,much, older than many prophets mentioned in the bible,koran and the old testament.
    so,paleo siberians used to live under the name turk or mongolian as (uralic finno-ughric) peoples in the past.turk is not a nation that is recent as LUrtz points out.

    Comment by PARRA WA SAMEN — March 8, 2012 @ 9:38 pm

  99. for those interested :
    write” Kızılderililerin Türklüğü ispatlandı ” on the google and get it searched for.
    you will see loads of news about it.
    the news was issued in the geneology periodicals in the usa,and released in turkiye afterwards.
    ”you can wake up a sleeping man,but you cannot wake up a man who pretends to be sleeping” that is a saying that best fits for people like Lurtz from california who rambles about the topic.

    Comment by eskiminzin — March 8, 2012 @ 10:11 pm

  100. Adam was Armenian in Africa :) Vardan Mamikonian (LURTZ) is an ape that was the first chain of evolution of mankind :) Vardan embraces his grandsons in Africa :)

    Comment by yakamoz — March 9, 2012 @ 9:20 pm

  101. do not have a go at Lurtz so much.people improve by learning each day.turkiye is also your country,lurtz,u r always welcome as an armenian whose ancestors used to live here.turks are hospitable.as for the comments made above,i thank u all…

    Comment by GOYATHLAY — March 10, 2012 @ 12:55 pm

  102. ” i think the connection between the natives and turks is far fetched and….” so used to go the story as told by some ”GREAT MAN OF THOUGHT” WHO THOUGHT WRONG ABOUT THE İSSUE :) ROB’S BLOG used to have some weird experts(lmao people who had their mouths in their asses,apparently,as they laughed their asses off)those guys had pretty nice grammar by which they could form grammatically right but meaningwise wrong deductions…
    now that the genetics give us the sheer truth,their asses must have laughed them off :)

    Comment by GOYATHLAY — March 15, 2012 @ 2:25 pm

  103. Blah blah blah…your comments about Armenians don’t paint a very becoming picture of you. Ata-jerk…errr…Ataturk was a fascist fuck. Nobody cares about him besides those that live in Turkey. Native Americans aren’t Turkic. They may have shared a common ancestry 10,000 plus years ago, but the Turks in Turkey aren’t even truly Turkic. Besides the linguistic ties, the genetic associations between “Turks” from Turkey and Turkic-speaking peoples from central and east Asia are tenuous at best. “Turks” from Turkey are really accultured, Islamicized Armenians, Greeks, Assyrians, and Kurds with some Jews and Slavs thrown in for good measure who appropriated aspects of all the aforementioned respective cultures as well as influences from Arabs and Persians. The Turkish language spoken in Turkey is a blend of so many different languages: Armenian, Greek, Arabic, Persian, English, French…the list goes on. Turks killed 1.5 million Armenians, 750,000 Assyrians, and 500,000 Greeks and now they’ve turned on the Kurds…errr…sorry…”Mountain Turks”. Face it, your nation is built on false information and dreams and the blood of innocents. Why should anybody read your garbage Turkish sources if you’re choosing to ignore the respected and widely accepted research and information from non-Turkish sources? Do you really think that every other nation in the world (probably at the behest of Armenians) are out to get Turkey and make it look bad? It’s people like you, Goyathlay, that make people think poorly of Turkey. They see it as a backward, redneck nation because of you Turanists, chasing a fabricated history…screaming at people to believe their lies. Oh, and your information about Manzikert is all wrong by the way. Armenians didn’t betray the Byzantines, nor did they fight for the Seljuks. Armenians ARE indigenous to Anatolia. “How proud he who can call himself a Turk”? If I were a Turk from Turkey I wouldn’t be proud of racist, ill-informed idiots like yourself. That Kemalist education was great, wasn’t it?

    Watch out behind you! There is an Armenian subversive and he is going to get you! Watch out behind you! The Armenian diaspora is coming after you! Better look under your bed tonight, there is an Armenian hiding under there! You have erectile dysfunction and can’t satisfy your wife? Those wily Armenians must have done it to you!

    Moron.

    Embrace your Armenian heritage and don’t try to instill your false “Turkish” culture on peoples such as Native Americans who have nothing to do with it.

    Comment by mamigonian_coming_to_get_you — May 26, 2012 @ 4:30 am

  104. 1) http://www.haberler.com/kizilderililer-turk-yuruyusune-katilacak-3581393-haberi
    ahaaa,at last our bastardian mamgonian is here without his farting lurtz id.”coming to get me?” i am ready jerk :) u really scared me… :) u r beyond the conception of moron as u r seeing all the references and evidence above and yet,u still remain in your psychosis.
    2) haber.gazetevatan.com/kizilderililer-turk-cikti/427400/1/Haber
    find a turk if u cannot get this translated :) u junkie armenian who samelessly still persists in his obstinacy,u r really get mad to see the evidences.armenians are not our ancestors.those hairy people who have treacherous character are YOUR ancestors.
    u may go on denying but what science says has put a fullstop to the topic declaring that the native americans are turks :)

    your hatred against turks come out of your mouth as ignominous saliva bursts :)
    so,there are no turks in turkiye:)))))))))) wow,a few turks came and converted everyone hahaa:) Ataturk fucked u hard and u go mad.ask your fathers and mothers.talat pasa and 2. abdulhamid fucked u so well …do not worry,there are 55 millions of TURKS in turkiye.a few dung armenians are welcome…all u can do is to threaten.come to turkiye or i will go to california and let us see whether u will make off like your ancestors.ataturk may or may not be respected outside turkiye does not matter.what matters is how well he kicked your bloodthirsty hıncak and tashnak.all they could do was to kill weaponless civilized people.when turks and kurds came along armed all they could do was to flee instead of fighting like men.
    what people think of turks does not matter moron…we know ourselves.everybody sees u beggars begging for votes in order to make people buy your stories.
    who will buy that story:there are no turks in turki,ye:))) we know what such ideas aim at.nevertheless,all such efforts are just in vain…
    diaspora people should go and live in armenia instead of california.why dont they go back to their country?they like money:)))and they hawl from california like dogs that have rabies.
    ataturk fucked u so hard u cannot forget him :)
    i am not afraid of armenians…i am waiting…and bring your mothers and wives,and u will testimony with your own eyes how well i can satisfy them,unlike u who always talk about the turks who kicked your asses in history to your wives instead of making them happy.
    on the 23rd of june be in istanbul taxim,in istanbul.bring along your diaspora. :)
    you lost this anatolia for good=perpetually=eternally=incessantly:)
    bark on bastard,your ancestors know us well…there are no armenians in turkiye.they are turks now :)the betrayors to byzantine and finally the ottomans are countryless in syria,lebanon,and where u live.
    i am ready to die,come and kill me,loser armenian lurtz.u finally dropped your mask.

    Comment by goyathlay will enver get bored of kicking your ass, bastard-ian mamigonianianianian. brainless! — June 3, 2012 @ 12:00 am

  105. websites : tallarmeniantale
    turks at america

    Comment by goyathlay will enver get bored of kicking your ass, bastard-ian mamigonianianianian. brainless! — June 3, 2012 @ 12:35 am

  106. WOW,someone really got pissed off ;) Armenians cannot take the truths.They made up lies and gradually they believed in what they made up,too.Turks will never sign Anatolia over to any nation.You had better usurp that fact, Indian masked Armenian impotent man.He gives the impression that he is a sucker.

    Comment by Alper — June 3, 2012 @ 12:44 am

  107. see all my references,not all of them are from turkish sources.anyway,turkish sources derive the info from american and russian sources,

    Comment by goyathlay — June 3, 2012 @ 11:46 am

  108. i suggest that u masked but unveiled armenian visit anıtkabir in turkiye,ankara.speak your mind to where ataturk has his grave.ask him why he defeated everyone including the armenians.u have a turk comlex,a sort of inferiority complex that makes u sound like an anti turkic racist.
    as for your threats…chips fall where they may.we do not need your respect.nor do we need the respect of any others.

    Comment by goyathlay — June 3, 2012 @ 12:11 pm

  109. That armenian bastard is merely jealous of the glorious Turkish history. The avaricious,covetous guy curses at Ataturk because the armenians never had such a national hero who could save the armenians who only needed the French,the Russian support but were walked out on by them in the end :)
    The city called Van was attacked by armenians and two thirds of the kurds living there were massacred by the Armed forces of armenians.Their big bro was the Russians ;)
    Losers lost and went away. Ousted and being subject to exodus, they make up stories like 1.5 million of them were killed.Did you count them all?
    The ethnic cleansing started by the armenians brought about the wrath of the kurds and Turks.And,they should pay for what they did.They were mostly ousted from our lands.
    Vomit all the anger in you,jerk!Ataturk was a leader and a soldier u never have had and will never ever have :)

    Comment by greywolf — June 3, 2012 @ 8:23 pm

  110. what kind of a fascist anti turkic raving retarded silly man would deny the presense of people numbering more than 50 millions of turks in asia minor?what sort of a malicious loser calls a hero with distorted bad names?what kind of a jerk pretends to be a native american and brings up all the loser hatred for turks?and finally the mask falls down and we see a grandson of the ousted treacherous nation.the armenians were the most affluent minority in the ottoman territories.
    according to that sick mind,a few turks came from asia and assimilated many nations into being turks.the pkk terrorists are mostly found to have armenian ancestry.
    what sort of a jerk and junkie pokes his nose into a topic that does nort discuss the armenian problems but the relation of turks and indians?he must be satisfying his anger under this topic.he must be going red each times he hears the word turk.and he barks on digressing all the time.we kill the dogs that get rabies u loser.

    Comment by goyathlay — June 7, 2012 @ 9:52 am

  111. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atatürk_Centennial
    read that well,u moron armenian,replete with manure and hay in his heart.read that and see the truth…

    Comment by greywolf — June 7, 2012 @ 9:38 pm

  112. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atat%C3%BCrk_Centennial

    read it well

    Comment by greywolf — June 7, 2012 @ 9:39 pm


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